Author Topic: New toys!!! But...... (Read 11624 times)

hitech · « **Reply #135 on:** February 25, 2008, 10:45:08 AM »

A few thoughts.

First do not confuse the words guard, and defend. People do not mind defending once they are attacked. But most people do not wish to stand guard duty. So when you make a blanket statement
"This will force a country to defend the factories"

It will not happen , unless you make sure there is a way it can be defend with out standing guard.

2nd , notice all items damaged in strat , only lower a countries offensive ability. We do not lower fuel octain, because this gives an advantage in a fight. That is complete different than giving and advantage in the war.

The same would go for eliminating some plane types it would give one side an advantage in the actual fight , not the war game.

Any strat design must not have a steam roller effect that once a threshold is crossed , the defending side becomes hopeless.

FrodeMk3 · « **Reply #136 on:** February 25, 2008, 11:01:45 AM »

You know, I wonder how much it would impact game play to just simply eliminate the Mission Editor? Any ideas?

ridley1 · « **Reply #137 on:** February 25, 2008, 11:07:29 AM »

Earlier it had been brought up that a "strat ENY" or perk modifiers or damage modifier gets involved so that the defender on their hells is spared strat damage somehow.

I don't think that standing guard to remove people from the front line combat is necessary. Or wanted...that'd bore the hell out of me. But we do have radar. Strat ack defenses can become extremely lethal below x altitude to make the dreaded NOE run unfeasible.

ridley1 · « **Reply #138 on:** February 25, 2008, 11:08:18 AM »

Frode, you'd still have squad tower missions.

LYNX · « **Reply #139 on:** February 25, 2008, 11:16:15 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hitech
A few thoughts.

First do not confuse the words guard, and defend. People do not mind defending once they are attacked. But most people do not wish to stand guard duty. So when you make a blanket statement
"This will force a country to defend the factories"

It will not happen , unless you make sure there is a way it can be defend with out standing guard.

2nd , notice all items damaged in strat , only lower a countries offensive ability. We do not lower fuel octain, because this gives an advantage in a fight. That is complete different than giving and advantage in the war.

The same would go for eliminating some plane types it would give one side an advantage in the actual fight , not the war game.

Any strat design must not have a steam roller effect that once a threshold is crossed , the defending side becomes hopeless.

HTC sorry for being a pain but could you clarify this part for me

Quote

We do not lower fuel octane, because this gives an advantage in a fight. That is complete different than giving and advantage in the war.

I was wondering if you meant fuel percentage rather than quality.

Krusty · « **Reply #140 on:** February 25, 2008, 11:24:48 AM »

No, he means octane. As in, a real war would bomb 100 octane fuel reserves and all that is left is 87 octane. He's saying that AH does *not* do this type of thing.

LYNX · « **Reply #141 on:** February 25, 2008, 11:46:08 AM »

Thanks Kristy. That makes sense now...went a bit blond there didn't I:o

Tilt · « **Reply #142 on:** February 25, 2008, 12:03:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hitech
A few thoughts.

First do not confuse the words guard, and defend. People do not mind defending once they are attacked.
It will not happen , unless you make sure there is a way it can be defend with out standing guard.

Must absolutely concurr with this............

Folk are not going to hang around at 25k in the hope that an inbound might come that way to attack strat.

Hence such notice as is required to make defence possible, probable and rewarding should be considered..........

Re the fuel thing I would still advocate that fuel be rationed (or at least have its rationing biased) by actual measured quantity rather than % tank capacity.

Then possibly a longer/smoother sliding scale of rationing could be implemented as a field has its fuel reserves depleted.

A minor point but I do believe that attritting an AA factory does affect a defencive logistic.

Krusty · « **Reply #143 on:** February 25, 2008, 12:07:32 PM »

Here's an idea that won't require you to "guard" anything, but will help in defenses for sure.

Historically with radar ranges and advance ground spotters, NO big bombing raid would go unnoticed. Defensive fighters could have more than enough notice to scramble, climb, and meet the bombers at alt in force.

Both sides could tell when large missions were forming.

In this game we barely have 5 minutes' warning (the time it takes for a bomber to cross a sector).

I would suggest the gameplay would change if ALL enemy bombers show up on dar if they pass 15k alt. Unlimited dot dar ANYwhere on the map, for bomber formations above 15k.

That would give us enough ready-alert time to scramble and climb out to meet them.

Otherwise, bombers fly too high, too fast, and too undetected. They are the stealth bombers of the modern era, only without the miniscule bombload.

dedalos · « **Reply #144 on:** February 25, 2008, 12:17:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Here's an idea that won't require you to "guard" anything, but will help in defenses for sure.

Historically with radar ranges and advance ground spotters, NO big bombing raid would go unnoticed. Defensive fighters could have more than enough notice to scramble, climb, and meet the bombers at alt in force.

Both sides could tell when large missions were forming.

In this game we barely have 5 minutes' warning (the time it takes for a bomber to cross a sector).

I would suggest the gameplay would change if ALL enemy bombers show up on dar if they pass 15k alt. Unlimited dot dar ANYwhere on the map, for bomber formations above 15k.

That would give us enough ready-alert time to scramble and climb out to meet them.

Otherwise, bombers fly too high, too fast, and too undetected. They are the stealth bombers of the modern era, only without the miniscule bombload.

And how would you know the dots were bombers and not just a couple of fighters? Not to mention that most bombers I see are below 15K

Tilt · « **Reply #145 on:** February 25, 2008, 12:18:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Here's an idea that won't require you to "guard" anything, but will help in defenses for sure.

"Chain high" spotted large formations at greater ranges

If the radar dot colour changed with alt and higher alt was spotted at longer range defensive ac could scramble in time.

Krusty · « **Reply #146 on:** February 25, 2008, 12:18:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by dedalos
And how would you know the dots were bombers and not just a couple of fighters? Not to mention that most bombers I see are below 15K

It would only kick in for bombers, I mean. You wouldn't see fighters. That means there could be a full dar bar, but that could be 6 bombers unescorted, or 6 bombers with 70+ escorts. You'd only see the 6 dots, and only when they break 15k. Before that threshold, you'd see normal dar bar.

Tilt · « **Reply #147 on:** February 25, 2008, 12:22:57 PM »

Whats the down side of showing high fighters earlier to?

radar shaped as an inverted cone.with some indication of the height of the incoming?

Krusty · « **Reply #148 on:** February 25, 2008, 12:27:35 PM »

Fighter sweeps weren't as easy to detect as bombers.

Also, it's the bombers that steamroll the map. It's the bombers that "sneak" into an area with no advance warning, and no interceptor can climb up to them and stop them before they drop their bombs.

Fighters can be dealt with. Bombers at alt cannot. You see a dot at the edge of your dar and nothing save a me163 can get to 20k in the time it takes for that bomber to drop its load (guessing 12mi dar radius, with bomber speeds near 300mph at 20k, comes to 2.4 minutes (5 miles per minute, 12 miles)).

I'm only guessing a 163 can climb that fast, but it doesn't matter because they're limited in availability.

dedalos · « **Reply #149 on:** February 25, 2008, 12:33:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tilt
Whats the down side of showing high fighters earlier to?

radar shaped as an inverted cone.with some indication of the height of the incoming?

It would increase the risk of them getting in to a fight. As we all know that is a dangerous thing. I think we will get a lot of whining about that from both bombers and fighters. Fighters because if these guys are coming in heavy, they are not looking for a fight to begin with. Bombers because if a single formation kept finding a couple of 262s waiting for them it would be pretty annoying.

I am all for it since it will help me find things to shoot at, but I don;t think the majority will like it.