Mid-air collisions

[33Vortex]

So, a hot topic no doubt. Here it is again.

I was up and about in a 190D, as usual, came across a zeke and came in from above much because the opportunity presented itself. There were other enemies around, mostly F4Us from the carrier nearby. Now the zeke has a incredible low speed handling, nevertheless I never thought this would happen because his E was so low. It's not the first time I misjudge a zeke, and I don't mind going down because of a mistake. My beef with this is that he came up to greet me, did not hit me but collided with me (or I collided with him) I went down and he did not. Afterwards he had the kindness of coming back to shoot me in the chute.

Now... what the heck is the logic behind one plane going down and not the other? Could someone care to explain that to me because I do not get it. Some people get away with flying like they are invincible, pulling stunts that are clearly suicidal and make it out fine just because the collision system allow them to.

A mid-air usually occur when one, or both, pilot(s) make a mistake. The result irl is both pilots involved will suffer structural damage (doh!). From what I recall, the current system was introduced in AH to make the aggressor go down and not the victim. Well, it certainly is not working because the collision detection system generally reward those going for a collision course.

Like I said, I have no problem whatsoever with going down because I make a mistake. What upsets me is that both planes should go down if a mid-air occur, not one. There should be no reward in being suicidal and flying into other a/c.

[thrila]

uh oh.... duck and cover! duck and cover!

[fuzeman]

Find Bronks pictures, I do not have clearence or the permission to post them.
And in real life two planes collide they both do not automatically fall to the ground.

And I dont know for sure but I really doubt this is why HiTech Modeled collisions:
" From what I recall, the current system was introduced in AH to make the aggressor go down and not the victim. Well, it certainly is not working because the collision detection system generally reward those going for a collision course."

AH heck, I'll post them anyway

Originally posted by Bronk
Yes I'm serious there is no way to win a collision. Think you need to think about it.
Tell me whats to decide on who "wins a collision"
Tangle's external from his front end the moment of impact.




Same basic angle external, tangle's view from my front end moment of impact.



There is no decision to be made. I ran into tangle I take damage.

[hitech]

From what I recall, the current system was introduced in AH to make the aggressor go down and not the victim.

You recall incorrectly.

HiTech

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Lusche
Here is a even more telling example: Both (european) players have stable 150ms pings to the HTC server:





Both pictures show the exact moment of impact. First picture is from MY film (Pony), second from my enemy's film (Jug). Pony driver (me) rammed the Jug. Only I took damage, because the collision happened only on MY computer.

Originally posted by 33Vortex
What upsets me is that both planes should go down if a mid-air occur, not one. .

Looking at the above pics, you are hopefully reconsidering your point of view

[hubsonfire]

As I recall, it was changed so that people would quit whining about losing collisions while the other guy flew off unscathed. Or maybe it was changed so they would start. It was something like that.

[Karnak]

The only change there has ever been to AH collision modeling is to add the text that appears in the buffer.

[bcadoo]

You should read the notes on lag and how it affects game play.  What is happening on your FE is your 'reality' and is not exactly what is happening on the other guys FE.

Its also important to note that the other guy is ahead of where he appears on your FE so don't complain when you get killed by an 'impossible' shot.  (on his side you were in the crosshairs)

[Bruv119]

I rarely collide these days only time is if your in deep and some idiot runs into the back of me and I don't see him.  Thats annoying when your elevators are off and he didnt fire a shot then flies off undamaged.

But as these pictures explain he didnt see no collision on his front end so didnt take damage.   Then how did my elevators fall off if he didnt pull the trigger and rammed them with his prop? thats what i don't get.

Still I think the collision model is ok because the only other option is instant explosion of both planes.   Rarely do you see the other guy fly off unharmed.  Surely you've had a case where someone has run into you and they have died whilst you've taken no damage.   People tend to not complain when its that way around  

[fuzeman]

Collisions usually remind me of grade school and report card time..

Hey I got an A in math [ you did the work and understood it, take the pat on the back. ]
He/She {the Teacher} gave me an F. [ didn't do the work deflecting blame to teacher. ]
With collisions it's always the 'other guy' who of course always 'intentionally' did it.

I do my fair shore of colliding and being collided into rarely intentional, but I think its a by product of flying very tight and close in a dogfight.
I will admit I occasionally when out of ammo try to get a bomber to collide with me.
Learned mostly after my Trainer days when trying to get enemy bombers away from A1 on ndiles.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by bcadoo
You should read the notes on lag and how it affects game play.  What is happening on your FE is your 'reality' and is not exactly what is happening on the other guys FE.
 

Please also read the notes on what the minimum lag you should expect is and where it is coming from  

[hubsonfire]

Originally posted by Bruv119
But as these pictures explain he didnt see no collision on his front end so didnt take damage.   Then how did my elevators fall off if he didnt pull the trigger and rammed them with his prop? thats what i don't get.

Your PC observed that your elevators were trying to occupy space currently occupied by an airplane, and as such, were destroyed. There is no intent determined by the game- it just flags a collision when it determines that two objects are in the same place at the same time. It doesn't care who is in what, how fast they are going, or where they're heading. If part of your plane is at x,y,z point in space, and it sees another plane pass through x,y,z, you have collided.

[ridley1]

I've become much happier now that when I get A collision message I just say
"dammit!" Part of the game....it just happens

[Flayed1]

The only collisions I have a problem with are the ones where you can be flying on autopilot level and some guy comes in dead on your six but yet you are told that you hit him. LOL   I would like to know when the reverse was installed on my plane lol.  This doesn't happen real often but I have to laugh when it does.

[33Vortex]

Considering the lag and looking at the pictures posted, I understand how and why the collision detection work the way it does. It still sux tho because some people seem to take advantage of how it works.

The only situation I consistently run into high risk of collision is in a diving attack right after a vertical reverse. Some people seem to think they can win by pulling up and shoot me in the face, this rarely happens. More often than not I shoot them to smithereens or miss, sometimes tho I do fly into them with too little airspeed to evade in time when trying to take the shot. I've also come across people who enter a spin right in front of me thus flying into me, effectively shooting me down that way. Bombers can also be risky to attack at high speed but I don't recall last time I flew into one.

I'll be more careful pulling vertical reverses on zekes now.

I see some players fly like they're invincible, particularly Il-2s in base defense mode and the japanese planes are plain suicidal going after higher opponents.

Ah my sig got busted!