Author Topic: Mid-air collisions (Read 3958 times)

dedalos · « **Reply #30 on:** February 21, 2008, 03:55:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lusche
That would be only happening as a result of an major warp.

You are thinkin way too complicated by the way.

Nah, its a classic DA scenario. You merge head on but off to the right of someone at about 350. You pull up to where he is not and boom, you have collided message comes up. I mean, I am not that dumb (it is not a question btw) I know when I hit someone and when I didn't, especially on a head on pass where the guy is always in my view. Think mini warps.

In any case, my point is that I cannot always maintain separation. Just responding to the net lag crowd and the " its your fault crowd". It was not meant as anything else

Bronk · « **Reply #31 on:** February 21, 2008, 03:59:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by dedalos

What is that magical net lag everyone is talking about?

The space difference between the 2 ac is the "magical net lag".

Same moment in time but different pictures of the same event.

Lusche · « **Reply #32 on:** February 21, 2008, 04:00:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by dedalos
Nah, its a classic DA scenario. You merge head on but off to the right of someone at about 350. You pull up to where he is not and boom, you have collided message comes up. I mean, I am not that dumb (it is not a question btw) I know when I hit someone and when I didn't, especially on a head on pass where the guy is always in my view. Think mini warps.

Film it and post it. You will see that it's not happening that way.

BTW, the above pictures were the result of some testing in DA.

dedalos · « **Reply #33 on:** February 21, 2008, 04:21:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lusche
Film it and post it. You will see that it's not happening that way.

BTW, the above pictures were the result of some testing in DA.

Yes, nothing wrong with those pictures. That is just one of the ways it can happen. Probably the most common. No argument there.

How about the scenario I described. Most people refer to net lag thinking is the sum of the ping times of the two FEs and then they explain it as if the really have a clue or have seen the coad. I think that that is nothing compared to the way things work. That is why asked what is it. What is the minimum number of milliseconds between updates? To me it looks like the minimum is 500ms + ping time. That would explain what I described above and why I get shot from impossible angles. At 600ms and 350mph each the distance traveled would be pretty big no? What if the two guys have a ping of 200ms each? Now we are talking a lag of about a second.

The pictures describe that situation perfectly, but that is only one case.

hitech · « **Reply #34 on:** February 21, 2008, 04:28:34 PM »

dedalos: You are incorrect, what you describe does not happen.

The lag has no effect on how quick something will change directions. It will still take a smooth flight path, you just see where he was 250 MS ago just as you have seen him your entire flight. The point is simple, do not fly into the other plane, and you will not collide just like in real life, you can not predict the moves of another pilot.

HiTech

Lusche · « **Reply #35 on:** February 21, 2008, 04:31:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by dedalos
Yes, nothing wrong with those pictures. That is just one of the ways it can happen. Probably the most common. No argument there.

How about the scenario I described. Most people refer to net lag thinking is the sum of the ping times of the two FEs and then they explain it as if the really have a clue or have seen the coad. I think that that is nothing compared to the way things work. That is why asked what is it. What is the minimum number of milliseconds between updates? To me it looks like the minimum is 500ms + ping time. That would explain what I described above and why I get shot from impossible angles. At 600ms and 350mph each the distance traveled would be pretty big no? What if the two guys have a ping of 200ms each? Now we are talking a lag of about a second.

The pictures describe that situation perfectly, but that is only one case.

You are confusing things.
Do NOT compare "being shot at impossible angles" with colisions.
The latter one is a result of things happening ON YOUR FE. Collision on your screen = Damage to you.
Gunfire however is always determined on the FE of the firing player. YOU hit a enemy on your screen, he has to hit you on his.

And the scenario you have described "You pull up to where he is not and boom, you have collided message comes up." simply does not happen. I'm still waiting for any film depicting this.
No collision on your screen = No damage from collsion at all.
It's all much simpler than you seem to think. I can only refer you again to "How net lag affects Aces High" on http://trainers.hitechcreations.com

dedalos · « **Reply #36 on:** February 21, 2008, 04:35:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hitech
dedalos: You are incorrect, what you describe does not happen.

The lag has no effect on how quick something will change directions. It will still take a smooth flight path, you just see where he was 250 MS ago just as you have seen him your entire flight. The point is simple, do not fly into the other plane, and you will not collide just like in real life, you can not predict the moves of another pilot.

HiTech

Thank you

dedalos · « **Reply #37 on:** February 21, 2008, 04:38:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lusche

And the scenario you have described "You pull up to where he is not and boom, you have collided message comes up." simply does not happen. I'm still waiting for any film depicting this.
No collision on your screen = No damage from collsion at all.
It's all much simpler than you seem to think. I can only refer you again to "How net lag affects Aces High" on http://trainers.hitechcreations.com

no no no, lol. I am not saying there was no collision on my end foo

I am saying that sometimes there is no way to avoid it due to an update coming in. HT said that does not happen so maybe what is causing it is dropped packets or a warp.

WWM · « **Reply #38 on:** February 21, 2008, 04:42:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by dedalos
why I get shot from impossible angles.

Thats just me with my rifle on the grassily knole:noid

Roundeye · « **Reply #39 on:** February 21, 2008, 04:48:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
All that matters is on who's PC two airplanes were detected occupying the same space.

BINGO! /\ what Karnak said /\

I am guilty of complaining about the collision model years ago under my past account until it dawned on me how it works.

If you get damage/kilt in a collision, it's because YOU (your computer) saw it. the other guy (his computer) did not.

Why? lag. The server sends info about the "world" and your computer sends back info on how you changed it (what you did with your airplane to react with the "world") This happens 4 times a second. Now consider everyone's computer that is playing in that arena is doing the same thing. It is unlikely that any 2 players' computers are sending the exact same thing at the exact same time. This is lag.....a slight difference between what you "see" and what the other guy "sees". You (and your computer) see two planes trying to occupy the same space at the same time. The other guy (and his computer) sees separation between aircraft. You lose parts, he flies off.

Note:
I may be off base on this, but it's how I understand it and it seems logical. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #40 on:** February 21, 2008, 05:48:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by dedalos
no no no, lol. I am not saying there was no collision on my end foo

I am saying that sometimes there is no way to avoid it due to an update coming in. HT said that does not happen so maybe what is causing it is dropped packets or a warp.

I've been seeing 60-100% packet loss in the Chicago area between Savvis and AT&T the last few nights. No idea if that could be your problem, but I haven't even been able to play. Ping time swinging between 180 and 3600ms. Awesome.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #41 on:** February 21, 2008, 05:52:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Roundeye
This happens more times a second than you can imagine.
Note:
I may be off base on this, but it's how I understand it and it seems logical. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

4 times a second.

Roundeye · « **Reply #42 on:** February 21, 2008, 06:00:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hubsonfire
4 times a second.

TY. (hence the 250ms mention by HT....duh)

fixed.

That much info stuffed through a wire in 1/4 of a second is still hard to imagine:D For me, anyway....I'm NOT a computer guy.

Squire · « **Reply #43 on:** February 21, 2008, 06:11:59 PM »

I have never understood the collision threads, I rarely collide with another a/c, it does happen, and I will say most of the time its my own damn fault too...but s*** happens in a dogfight at 400 mph, oh well.

...but the infrequency of them just does not compel me to make a big deal out of it. I get hit by heavy AAA too, I dont like it, but flack sometimes hits you, what you gunna do?

...and for all those on Ch 200 that are always accusing another player of deliberately colliding, thats rubbish, most do not...you have a lot of a/c flying around at high speeds, many without 8-way hat views, many n00bs, and its bound to happen, so chill on the "conspiracy theories" its just whining.

If you want a nice safe flight, here, happy skies:

http://www.microsoft.com/games/flightsimulatorx/

dedalos · « **Reply #44 on:** February 21, 2008, 07:25:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hubsonfire
4 times a second.

well, 4 but . . . . 250 from their FE to the server and 250 from the server to you + ping time. You do get an update every 250ms but you are looking at is 500ms old at best