Author Topic: Mid-air collisions  (Read 3977 times)

Offline moot

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Mid-air collisions
« Reply #75 on: February 22, 2008, 03:08:14 PM »
I don't think so, Hub.. I lose get no kills for a lot of the killshots I make in GVs, which looks a lot like the lower ping tank sends a kill report to the server faster than I do.
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Offline dedalos

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Mid-air collisions
« Reply #76 on: February 22, 2008, 03:10:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot
I don't think so, Hub.. I lose get no kills for a lot of the killshots I make in GVs, which looks a lot like the lower ping tank sends a kill report to the server faster than I do.


Or he fired first?
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Elfie

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Mid-air collisions
« Reply #77 on: February 22, 2008, 03:31:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Elfie: You now understand you did not collide, only he did?


Oh yeah, I knew that from the start because the only collision message was from him. I just didn't watch the film close enough to see that on my FE we were basically dead even when I died, which most likely means I was actually in front of him on his FE and took lethal damage from his guns. I had to slow the film way down and pan the view around a bit to see that.

I'll use my new found skill at taking screen shots in films to show what I saw the instant before I died. :D

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In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline moot

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Mid-air collisions
« Reply #78 on: February 22, 2008, 03:35:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
Or he fired first?

I think the time of flight of the turret round, the netroute roundtrip time on his end, and the one way time from my pc to the HTC server are often all pretty much the same.
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Offline hubsonfire

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Mid-air collisions
« Reply #79 on: February 22, 2008, 04:05:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot
I don't think so, Hub.. I lose get no kills for a lot of the killshots I make in GVs, which looks a lot like the lower ping tank sends a kill report to the server faster than I do.


In the case of a collision, I think the faster connection sees the collision first, since in theory, they should see things happen sooner, or at a lesser distance, than would the slower connection. In the case of guns, I think the lower your ping, the better off you are. You're going to have shots fired and packets otw to the server before the other guy's get there, even if he fires at the same moment or even slightly before you do.

Brain hurteds.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2008, 04:10:38 PM by hubsonfire »
mook
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Offline Baine

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Mid-air collisions
« Reply #80 on: February 22, 2008, 08:48:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
Your PC observed that your elevators were trying to occupy space currently occupied by an airplane, and as such, were destroyed. There is no intent determined by the game- it just flags a collision when it determines that two objects are in the same place at the same time. It doesn't care who is in what, how fast they are going, or where they're heading. If part of your plane is at x,y,z point in space, and it sees another plane pass through x,y,z, you have collided.


But does this apply to bullet hits too?
It should. You should only be hit by bullets your pc observes hitting you.
If not, you are in the position of a blind man in a room trying to avoid being hit by the angry guy with the baseball bat. You can jink and run around all you want, but he's still going to hit you because you can't see what he's doing. (Of course the guy who follows you closely and peppers your plane with 20mm rounds is going to complain because he can't understand that you are flying away scot free because your machine doesn't see the damage).
A few posts back, we were told that "miracle" shots occur because his PC sees his bullets hitting your plane even though your PC doesn't see such a thing.
So which is it? And which is fair?
My feeling on the collision model in here: It's as overthought and overly complex as the ENY system and the base capture order system _ way too much 'splaining required for something that should be simple. Two planes collide, two planes go down. Like our current system, it's unfair to one person, but it's a hell of a lot easier to explain and doesn't require constant posts and replayings of the Zaprueder film of collisions to prove which is "right."

Offline Connery

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Mid-air collisions
« Reply #81 on: February 22, 2008, 08:53:15 PM »
Guys I am no fan of the collision model either BUT apparantly its all to do with which machine sees the collision.

I understand what you see on your screen is accurate for YOU. Therefore If you fly into the other plane you will get a collision... the server interpolates the "lag effect" and adjusts each client end accordingly so that both have as accurate a picture as possible of whats going on.

So in short, Don't get to close on YOUR computer otherwise you'll end up colliding with the other guy and possibly throwing your monitor out the window in a fit of rage.

Offline hubsonfire

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Mid-air collisions
« Reply #82 on: February 22, 2008, 08:55:02 PM »
Dude.
mook
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Offline Lusche

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Mid-air collisions
« Reply #83 on: February 22, 2008, 09:01:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Baine

My feeling on the collision model in here: It's as overthought and overly complex as the ENY system and the base capture order system _ way too much 'splaining required for something that should be simple. Two planes collide, two planes go down. Like our current system, it's unfair to one person, but it's a hell of a lot easier to explain and doesn't require constant posts and replayings of the Zaprueder film of collisions to prove which is "right."


The contrary is right: The current collision model is as easy as one can ever be. Collision on your screen - you take damage. Simple & as fair as any collision model can get. Most people actually understand it quite easily how & why it works. The long and repetitve collision threads do only happen because some people just do not get it for various reasons, more often than not because they do not want to.

And do you REALLY think that a "both go down" would be easier to explain:



Now how would you explain to that P-47 driver that he went down due to a collision???? :rofl
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Offline Ghastly

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Mid-air collisions
« Reply #84 on: February 23, 2008, 07:35:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Baine
But does this apply to bullet hits too?
It should. You should only be hit by bullets your pc observes hitting you.
If not, you are in the position of a blind man in a room trying to avoid being hit by the angry guy with the baseball bat. You can jink and run around all you want, but he's still going to hit you because you can't see what he's doing. (Of course the guy who follows you closely and peppers your plane with 20mm rounds is going to complain because he can't understand that you are flying away scot free because your machine doesn't see the damage).
A few posts back, we were told that "miracle" shots occur because his PC sees his bullets hitting your plane even though your PC doesn't see such a thing.
So which is it? And which is fair?
My feeling on the collision model in here: It's as overthought and overly complex as the ENY system and the base capture order system _ way too much 'splaining required for something that should be simple. Two planes collide, two planes go down. Like our current system, it's unfair to one person, but it's a hell of a lot easier to explain and doesn't require constant posts and replayings of the Zaprueder film of collisions to prove which is "right."


What's that sound???  Oh, I know.  It's the wind whistling through the ghost town of an arena that has only a single player in it - because everyone else gave up in disgust because they would dump their whole ammo load into other aircraft and it would fly away untouched (because they couldn't guess how far they had to shoot in front of where they see it on their screen to cause the bullets to intersect with the other guys plane on his screen) and because in Baines world, colliding with another aircraft is the only way to kill it.

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Offline dedalos

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Mid-air collisions
« Reply #85 on: February 23, 2008, 07:51:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
In the case of a collision, I think the faster connection sees the collision first, since in theory, they should see things happen sooner, or at a lesser distance, than would the slower connection. In the case of guns, I think the lower your ping, the better off you are. You're going to have shots fired and packets otw to the server before the other guy's get there, even if he fires at the same moment or even slightly before you do.

Brain hurteds.


Nop, it should be the same for both.  The slow connection is also sending slow to the server, so no matter how fast you are, you can only see what he sends you as fast as he send you.  The 250ms queue at the server could make up some of the slowness too.  
In the case of shooting planes, the guy on your 6 always has the advantage no matter how slow or fast the connection is.  The only thing that changes is how old is the info that you see, but he also has the same problem.  The difference between the two realities gets bigger and that can lead to some interesting action.  In a case like Elfies, you could both end up on each others six and both end up going WTF? I shot you and I explode? :rofl
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline hubsonfire

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Mid-air collisions
« Reply #86 on: February 23, 2008, 10:08:02 AM »
Does the server queue the packets?
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Offline dedalos

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Mid-air collisions
« Reply #87 on: February 23, 2008, 06:44:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
Does the server queue the packets?


It could but that would not be the most efficient way.  It does queue information though.  For about, you guessed it, 250ms.  If it was done the smart way, it only queues information and sends the latest and greatest position update every 250ms.  It may also be queuing packets but I don;t see the point for that since the bandwidth requirements are not that high.  Then again, these are just guesses based on how I think i would do it and by thinking about it for a minute or too.  HTC guys are the only ones that know for sure
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline hitech

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Mid-air collisions
« Reply #88 on: February 24, 2008, 09:37:03 AM »
We do not queue packets. And the HTC servers do not create lag into the equation.

HiTech

Offline dedalos

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Mid-air collisions
« Reply #89 on: February 24, 2008, 10:04:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
We do not queue packets. And the HTC servers do not create lag into the equation.

HiTech


Where is the 250ms coming from then?  Unless you are talking about processing time at the server being so small that it does not effect lag.  The server is sending every 250ms right?
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.