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Author Topic: I'm with Congress  (Read 2338 times)

Offline bj229r

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« Reply #75 on: February 24, 2008, 01:04:20 PM »
And how does any of this affect whether or not we listen in on a phone call made between Yemen and Jordan?
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Offline Saxman

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« Reply #76 on: February 24, 2008, 01:15:54 PM »
It doesn't. However what's being listed to are calls that were placed from INSIDE the United States by legal residents. But that's just where it starts. Then they'll be tapping the communications of foreign-born naturalized citizens because, well, they were born outside the US so OBVIOUSLY if they're in communication with their country of origin there MUST be something suspicious going on.

From there, it's only a matter of time before the same is done with native-born citizens.
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Offline bj229r

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« Reply #77 on: February 24, 2008, 01:57:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saxman
It doesn't. However what's being listed to are calls that were placed from INSIDE the United States by legal residents. But that's just where it starts. Then they'll be tapping the communications of foreign-born naturalized citizens because, well, they were born outside the US so OBVIOUSLY if they're in communication with their country of origin there MUST be something suspicious going on.

From there, it's only a matter of time before the same is done with native-born citizens.
Not much to be done about that, I spose, just don't have hearings about why we 'couldn't connect the dots' the next time something happens.

(Does it bother anyone that the House doesn't share your views, merely that the telecom companies are able to be sued?)
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Offline john9001

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« Reply #78 on: February 24, 2008, 02:38:48 PM »
me::" I'd like to order a peperoni pizza"

govt wiretap agent:: "that must be a secret code" :noid
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Offline CpMorgan

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« Reply #79 on: February 24, 2008, 05:37:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saxman


Maybe it starts as a way to monitor suspected terrorists and foreign agents, but that's just one step closer to honest citizens being arrested for speaking their beliefs. This system, if left unchecked, could EASILY evolve into a method for the government to quash dissent. (edit)

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably...The first time any man's freedom is trodden on we’re all damaged."


By my recollection:
 Foreign and domestic electrical survellance is the domain of the NSA to include wiretapping and radio communications. Also Foreign intelligence gathering and assimulation (spying) is the domain of the CIA.
 Domestic criminal investigation of Federal crimes (i.e. bombings, conspiracies, and terrorism,) is the domain of the FBI.
If these groups weren't communicating and sharing information, one of the revealed causes that lead to 9/11, additional legislation only adds to the mix.

Also, during his administration, Thomas Jefferson met with the dominate Muslim leader at the time and asked why American shipping was being attacked and American sailors were being imprisioned and sold into slavery. His response was that Allah allowed Muslims to wage war on ANY person or country that was "Infadel" whether any state of war had been declared or not.
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Offline Rich46yo

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« Reply #80 on: February 24, 2008, 05:50:14 PM »
Yeah I know. I was living under terror alerts when I was 18yo.

No the security wasnt sufficient. Need I explain that?

Who cares if they hate us? Or did you want us to make policy according to their wishes?

Imagine that? Totalitarian states criticizing us? Boy, time to change our policies.

I always thought the bungling started with Klinton and company. Even long before. Or did you think terrorism started when George took the oath?

Boy, after that all encompassing post Saxman I think I'll bow out of this argument. I just cant compete on the intellectual level here.


Quote
Originally posted by Saxman
Bullchit.

As pointed out, the security we had in the country prior to 9/11 WAS sufficient to have prevented it. The failure was in the people MANAGING that system. There was bunch of stupid mistakes made at all levels that allowed this to slip through. It happened before with Oklahoma City, but where was the big outcry then?

The Arab world hated us before 9/11. They STILL hate us.

The United States was being criticized for interventionist policies before 9/11, and are STILL being criticized.

The capabilities of the terrorists have NOT changed. Chemical, biological and nuclear/dirty bomb attacks were as much of a threat BEFORE 9/11 as they are now. We just weren't so psychotically paranoid about it that we're seeing WMDs everywhere we look.

The only changes in the world after 9/11 were ones that we MANUFACTURED through the bungling and mismanagement by the Bush administration. And before the entrenched holier-than-thou Conservatives start sniping away to blame the Left, remember that all this began under a REPUBLICAN-controlled Congress where strict Party Line voting allowed Bush to pretty much do whatever the hell he wanted.
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Offline Raptor

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« Reply #81 on: February 24, 2008, 06:04:37 PM »
What has happened to the conservatives and liberals over time?

Conservatives once believed in small government, and individual right

Liberals supported bigger government and more regulation.
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Offline Saxman

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« Reply #82 on: February 24, 2008, 07:04:36 PM »
What, and you think terrorism began under CLINTON? You bowed out of the conversation a long time ago when you started replacing supporting evidence with snide remarks.
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Offline bj229r

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« Reply #83 on: February 24, 2008, 08:03:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saxman
What, and you think terrorism began under CLINTON? You bowed out of the conversation a long time ago when you started replacing supporting evidence with snide remarks.
It's been accelerating since 1979, and pretty much nothing effective has ever been done about it, save egging Afghanistan further back into the stone age
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Offline Lumpy

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« Reply #84 on: February 24, 2008, 10:36:31 PM »
That's because terrorism works and there are no really good ways to fight it. The only way to fight it is to refuse to change our lives because of it. Unfortunately this is a truth lost on most Americans.

In the grand scheme of things terrorism is a negligible risk to your lives, but the fear factor is blown far out of proportion for political reasons. More people die from eating unhealthy food, yet we don't see a "war" on fast food.
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Offline Saxman

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« Reply #85 on: February 24, 2008, 10:45:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lumpy
...yet we don't see a "war" on fast food.


:noid
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Offline Lumpy

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« Reply #86 on: February 24, 2008, 11:21:05 PM »
*Knocks on wood
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“I’m an angel. I kill first borns while their mommas watch. I turn cities into salt. I even – when I feel like it – rip the souls from little girls and now until kingdom come the only thing you can count on, in your existence, is never ever understanding why.â€

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Offline Yeager

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« Reply #87 on: February 25, 2008, 12:14:31 AM »
once a few hundred thousand die in a very short period of time in say, London, Madrid, New York, Brisbane........due to a bio/chem/nuclear attack pulled off by a whackjob muslim gang of suiciders peoples attitudes will change and we will look back on self defeating discussions like this one with resentment and trepidation.

Big changes are coming.  Its only a matter of time far as I can see it.
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Offline Lumpy

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« Reply #88 on: February 25, 2008, 01:22:32 AM »
As far as you can see it.
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Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #89 on: February 25, 2008, 11:48:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rich46yo
The Roman Republic a Democracy?? :lol  Yeah right.


The first use of paper ballots to conduct an election appears to have been in Rome in 139 BC.

They maybe were voting for the best new singer?
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