Author Topic: Australia Launches Bid for F22 Fighter (Read 2221 times)

Lumpy · « **Reply #60 on:** February 25, 2008, 05:34:37 PM »

VooWho: Why does this plane kinda look like the YF-23????

Perhaps the Chinese have better taste than the USAF?

BaDkaRmA158Th · « **Reply #61 on:** February 25, 2008, 06:10:03 PM »

The f-22 has always been butt ugly, even back in 96' the prototype model was just yuck (sadly it looked the same nothing changed)
I remember being young, and being sickend by the sight of it.

Then again, it was made by people who consider A-10's to be "ugly".

But like i said before, dont worry about the f-22 or the Jsf's
Push comes to shove and watermelon hits the fan, the americans will drop all the planes/types/models you can get your pilots hands on.
Just make sure you have alot of pilots in reserve ( and no aces high pilots dont count, unless..maby its a ground controled UAV fighter.)

*Sighs* course, it would be nice to have a joint venture into making a totaly new fighter strikly for aussies.

SD67 · « **Reply #62 on:** February 25, 2008, 10:06:34 PM »

While the '35 is a nice plane and all it's still go the same thing that made us chose the 18 over the 16... ONE engine. Our pilots like the redundancy of a second engine particularly with the distances one may be expected to "glide" once the fan shuts down. It may appear to be a flat sandy plain out there but it's anything but and it's not a nice place to wait for help even under the best of circumstances.
I'm aware that the '22 is not going to be up to the task that the Aardvarks do but then again the reason we've kept them around for so long is that really there are very few aircraft than have the came capability as the venerable F111.With any luck we'll be getting something like the Super Hornet to pick it up when they finally get retired.

Morpheus · « **Reply #63 on:** February 25, 2008, 11:28:32 PM »

China people need to stop breeding so much.

They are taking all my gas.

BaDkaRmA158Th · « **Reply #64 on:** February 26, 2008, 12:38:45 AM »

mmmmm..super hornet.

Larry · « **Reply #65 on:** February 26, 2008, 12:44:49 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
:Edit: oh yeah, just a FYI it doesnt matter if the cross section is the size of a bee, if radar indecate's a bee flying at mach 2.3 your going to be shot at.
Sleep tight you commie sob's

Thats funny as ****.

-tronski- · « **Reply #66 on:** February 26, 2008, 02:41:05 AM »

Rich46yo is quite right - currently the F-22 is not a viable replacement for the F-111.
The problem is that the past liberal govt. couldn't wait to retire the F-111, even though realistically its still has a number of years left in thier airframes/wings, and we still have stacks of spares, but for the first time ever the Liberal govt jumped at the F-18 E/F Super Hornet without even offering a tender to other manufacters! Its a joke to think we're replacing a still viable combat asset for something that trucks half the bomb load, half the distance, at half the speed!!

Our A330 MRTT's are a number of years away yet, and the Boeing delays with the Wedgetail AEW 737's are a problem, but so is the decision to bridge the JSF gap with F-18 E/F's, as is the decision to chase F-22's.
There isn't anything available like the precision bomb truck that the F-111 offers, but why decide to get not even the best 4th gen aircraft without tenders???
It smacks of political expedience, but not even smart political expedience...our immediate neighbours are buying truckloads of Su-30MK's with Indian radars and chinese technology which are the equal to our HUG F-18s and right now a Chinese Backfire could strike Australian shores without being refuelled - so we should be thinking not only long term - but our immediate to medium futures while hoping the chinese don't get a hold of the plenty of Russian Tu-22M's sitting around. The indonesians are painful - but they could hardly invade Australia...lucky for us the only people who could - are currently our best friends - but the Indo's Sukois could become a menace over the timor/indian oceans
The Koreans and Isreali's aren't idiots...we should be looking at the latest versions of F-15K, or Eurofighter - chucking away the JSF and wait to see what happens with the capability of the F-22 - not wasting all our future A330 air refuelling capacity with short legged F-18's

Tronsky

Nilsen · « **Reply #67 on:** February 26, 2008, 02:47:45 AM »

You aussies are actually facing many of the same problems as us it seems. Articles today here sais that the JSF is almost guaranteed to win the bid now but its one of the most useless planes for our real needs. It sais it all when the russians have actually said that they want us to choose the JSF over the EF or Gripen

Elfie · « **Reply #68 on:** February 26, 2008, 03:16:36 AM »

Tronski the F-111 is really a high speed bomber, it has no air to air capability to speak of. I have no idea why they put an F designation on it. It also has something most combat aircraft don't have, terrain following radar which makes it perfect for hugging the deck at high speeds.

No fighter aircraft is going to replace the capability that the F-111 brings to the table.

-tronski- · « **Reply #69 on:** February 26, 2008, 03:47:47 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
You aussies are actually facing many of the same problems as us it seems. Articles today here sais that the JSF is almost guaranteed to win the bid now but its one of the most useless planes for our real needs. It sais it all when the russians have actually said that they want us to choose the JSF over the EF or Gripen

At least hopefully you'll offer the EuroFighter, F-15, Rafale, or Gripen a chance to even compete, unlike our idiot ex-govt!

Quote

Originally posted by Elfie
Tronski the F-111 is really a high speed bomber, it has no air to air capability to speak of. I have no idea why they put an F designation on it. It also has something most combat aircraft don't have, terrain following radar which makes it perfect for hugging the deck at high speeds.

No fighter aircraft is going to replace the capability that the F-111 brings to the table.

Completely agree, our F-111's a still a good asset - we were too hasty in finding its retirement date, especially if we think somehow the F-18 E/F or JSF will be an adequate replacements for our current F-18 HUG's and F-111's

Tronsky

SD67 · « **Reply #70 on:** February 26, 2008, 04:01:32 AM »

The Super Hornet isn't going to be as good as the F111 at doing the things it does and as I've said before, there really isn't anything out there that is. The JSF isn't even going to come close. Unfortunately the F111 fleet is aging and is becoming increasingly costly to maintain and for this reason the RAAF needs to begin considering replacements now so they have the data they need to find a suitable one when the time comes.
I think the JSF is so far from being an ideal replacement for anything in our current arsenal I don't even know why we are even entertaining the idea of using it. While the F15 is a capable airframe, I'd still prefer the F22 over it as a replacement for our F/A18's. Seriously this purchase is not ging to be happening anytime soon (inside the next 5 years) so there is plenty of time for the RAAF to sit back and gather data so they can make (hopefully) the best choice for the country and not the best one for political expediency.

-tronski- · « **Reply #71 on:** February 26, 2008, 04:20:17 AM »

Thats actually a bit of a fallacy when it comes to the cost and age of our F-111's, right now we have the spares - and critically the wing life till 2018...

The problem is capability - we can get the same fleet of F-15K's with all the bells and whistles that South Korea paid for almost the same amount as we will pay for the Super Hornets...Our own F-18's AND Super Hornets are completely reliant on tankers/AEW to be able to force project successfully as well as the F-111 does. Well flown Sukois could eat our strike packages for breakfast over Jakarta if we still persist with the F-18 options post 2010

The potential cost of the JSF makes the F-22 more and more attractive, but that just might not be something we can buy - the yanks don't want to sell it to the Isrealis or Japanese - our chances are pretty slim, and as for the JSF...well I'd rather be defending our shores, or supporting our diggers in Timor with large numbers of excellent F-15K's than a few costly overpriced/under armed JSF

Tronsky

Nilsen · « **Reply #72 on:** February 26, 2008, 04:34:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by -tronski-
At least hopefully you'll offer the EuroFighter, F-15, Rafale, or Gripen a chance to even compete, unlike our idiot ex-govt!

Tronsky

What plane we choose is going to be decided in 2008. The Eurofighter left the competition just before xmas because they felt that JSF was getting unfair advantages (and they are) but the gripen is still in the competition in theory. The problem is that the airforce community is too scared to lose the training that the US is and has offered since we started buying american aircraft and the US ambassador has also made direct threats to our country if we dont choose their aircraft. Sounds strange that a so old ally would do that but thats the Bush government for you.

The funny thing is that the F16s we have will actually outperform the JSF so if (when) we choose them the russians will fly in circles around our JSFs. No wonder the russians wants us to choose the JSF

SD67 · « **Reply #73 on:** February 26, 2008, 04:40:25 AM »

That's the bit right there.

Quote

and critically the wing life till 2018

That's only 10 short years away. We need to be in the market looking for replacements now so we have them in time for the retirement of the F111.
It's been a faithful platform for us for about 40 years now and it's going to be damn hard to replace. I wonder if we could get a coupe of surplus B-ones?

Excel1 · « **Reply #74 on:** February 26, 2008, 04:42:41 AM »

i maybe wrong here, but i thought the "f" designation originated because the f-111 was originally designed to be a fighter for both the u.s navy and air force but it became to big and heavy during development to fill that role. changing the designation from f to b maybe would have been too much of an admission of failure?

as for raaf f-111's, the first time i ever saw one was back in the 70's. it was making a low level pass in formation with two rnzaf a-4's over south auckland.. a very impressive sight, and it's still an impressive and formable looking bird 30 odd years later.

the a-4s are collecting dust but it's good to know that there's still plenty of life left in the raaf f-111's yet, and that there are realists on the other side of the ditch when it comes to a government's obligations and duty as regards defence and commitment with it’s allies and friend’s.. which is in stark contrast to the blinkered socialists who have reduced the rnzaf's combat capability to helos, and throwing sheep out of the back of a c-130