boroda.. your take..

[lazs2]

Russian scientists are all saying that there is no such thing as man made global warming... at least not to any significant degree.   that our "contribution" pales in relation to the real thermostat..  "IT'S THE SUN STUPID" is pretty much what they are saying.

I can't disagree with em.   It makes the most sense.. the co2 math just doesn't add up sooo.. what else could it be?

I think that in the case of science.. we can no longer look to western scientists who have politicized science.. who are potatos for grants and anyone paying them.   the russian ones may be the only ones doing pure science anymore.  

I think this is a reversal.. I believe that in the cold war it was reversed.. I think now.. now that the russians are the only ones who don't have an agenda in this.. that I have to go with them on it.

http://ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=287279412587175

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1967753/posts

http://elpub.wdcb.ru/journals/rjes/v09/2007ES000250/0.shtml

http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/russian-scientist-says-earth-could-soon-face-new-ice-age/

[Boroda]

Originally posted by lazs2
I think that in the case of science.. we can no longer look to western scientists who have politicized science.. who are potatos for grants and anyone paying them.   the russian ones may be the only ones doing pure science anymore.  

I think this is a reversal.. I believe that in the cold war it was reversed.. I think now.. now that the russians are the only ones who don't have an agenda in this.. that I have to go with them on it.
 

Lazs, I work in Academy of Science, and what you said about "pure science" was true about Soviet science, not modern Russian.

People are fighting for grants just because they don't get paid. Now it's better then 5 years ago, but doctor of science (a degree higher then your PhD) earning $400 monthly is a joke. It's enough to be on the edge of starvation if you live alone. I am an IT engineer, and I earn about $200, don;t know exactly, it's enough for beer and tobacco only.

At the same time our institute got some interesting equipment, like a spectrometer that costs $25 million, there are only 4 machines like that in Europe... I think it was "aquired" for some commercial project.

Current regime wants to kill science as a nuisance, it doesn't bring money. Look, Stalin understood that science is necessary, while our new crooks at the top don't care about the future, and our "business" sponsors astrology instead of us.

An Internet channel in our institute was sponsored by Soros and (drumroll!!!) NATO back in 1996.

[Curval]

LOL

[midnight Target]

That'll leave a mark.

[Angus]

OMG

[Boroda]

What I said above doesn't mean that "MMGW" exists. I'll rely on that Russian scientists reports.

Climate research here is still payed, we have abandoned many meteo-stations, but it's still vital, like Arctic ice prognosis. We need it for Northern Sea Route navigation.

[lazs2]

Ok...  let me get it straight then..

We disagree that on the political agenda of old soviet science compared to today.

But....

We agree that current russian science is more pure science than western politicized science?

I can't imagine that russian scientists are getting grant money to do climate research where it would make any difference at all what outcome that they came up with... for instance..  they would do the research you are talking about because understanding is important to them but there would be no point in tainting it.    That is my take in any case.

lazs

[Curval]

LOL again.

[Boroda]

Lazs, I wonder who is more "idealistic" - you or me?...

You quote astronomers, they are 100% insane - and don't accept money to fake their results.

Russia can sell it's "greenhouse gas" quotes according to Kyoto treaty. We had a dramatic 50-70% decrease in industrial production since 1990, so we don;t need faking climate research results.

My point was that we don't have "happy pure science" since 1990. But surely our scientists don't share Western political agenda. We have our own Nano-technology as a national project, my ass!...

[Boroda]

Disclaimer: I am only a support personell, technician. But I see "money flows" and I know who gets the money first.

So far repairing floor tiles gets 10 times more money then all IT.

[lazs2]

I don't know..  I am wondering just what kind of scientist I would look to when it comes to solar activity..  it would seem that an astronomer would be the way to go.

I am wondering how russia would gain by any conclusion, one way or the other, that they came up with on man made global warming.  

Perhaps curval knows?

lazs

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by Boroda
Disclaimer: I am only a support personell, technician. But I see "money flows" and I know who gets the money first.

So far repairing floor tiles gets 10 times more money then all IT.

Boroda,
Despite all our differences, I definitely hate to hear that.  Striving to the best in what you want to do only to find that you can not make a living has got to be the most disappointing feeling there can be.  I hope things get better for you.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Bodhi
Boroda,
Despite all our differences, I definitely hate to hear that.  Striving to the best in what you want to do only to find that you can not make a living has got to be the most disappointing feeling there can be.  I hope things get better for you.

Thank You.

I hope you understand that I have some extra-income. I stay at my Institute because I have an office in a good place, and I officially work for govt (that isn't true, i don;t get any extra money that govt employees get. Science is literally left to starve). I am self-employed, "contractor", sometimes earning my moth salary in RAS for one day of consulting/fixing things up.

I do all I can for our scientists, most of the Institute's servers are made from a trash-can, we spend our own money and hardware on our network. Plus our aquaintances/connections to make it work somehow.

One client of mine, two visits monthly 4 hours each, gives me more money then my official job. I take 1000 rubles just for a visit when I look at the problem without doing anything, it's 1/4 of my monthly salary. But I can't remember the last time when I didn;t solve the problem and took only 1000 rubles

[Boroda]

Originally posted by lazs2
I don't know..  I am wondering just what kind of scientist I would look to when it comes to solar activity..  it would seem that an astronomer would be the way to go.

I am wondering how russia would gain by any conclusion, one way or the other, that they came up with on man made global warming.    

Very true.

Hard to scare a nation where 65% of the land is permafrost with global warming.

I already said that I prefer MMGW to another Ice Age. It was 2km of ice over Moscow...

All our machinery, greenhouse gas, thermonuclear weapons etc are nothing compared to one Krakatau volcano explosion. Or to power of tropical cyclones.

[kamilyun]

Originally posted by Boroda
All our machinery, greenhouse gas, thermonuclear weapons etc are nothing compared to one Krakatau volcano explosion. Or to power of tropical cyclones.

Need to be careful there...the power of a thermonuclear weapon might be less than a Krakatau explosion, but I bet that adding ALL of them together approaches, if not exceeds it.

Plus, the real danger is not the explosion...but all the Strontium (and other nuclei) running around in the atmosphere.  

I could see that Russian scientists could be biased in the completely opposite manner of Western or US scientists.  Whereas we get money to investigate climate change, the Russian agenda might be pro-development, anti-Kyoto.

Nothing wrong with that...but still a 'motivation'.