Suicide bombers and why

[MajIssue]

If your furball is gone... Find another one and stop whining

[OOZ662]

I'd actually do it just to see how many uptight guys I could get to flip out over it. Looks like that guy caught one or two.

[Carwash]

I have to agree with one point:  Dive bombing with B-17s or and other heavys is lame, just as bomb and bail is lame.  I have absolutely no problem hitting a CV from 10K with a set of B-24s.  On the second pass I can take out the cruiser. 

Now onto my main point:  The original post in this thread is kinda like the guys on 200 who call someone a dweeb because they disengage from a fight in which they are loosing.  It seems that some players think anyone who plays the game differently from the way in which they play is a dweeb, gamey, lame or some such.  Fortunatley there are many styles of game play.  You should be grateful.  It enriches the game.  The solutions are simple:  Don't chase a LA7 that is running away.  If he is running, just know that you won the fight.  Fly CAP over your CV.  I'll up a sector away in a 190A8 and obrit above an engaged CV looking for bombers. 

Past that, I love sinking CVs.  Nothing personal.  Not trying to ruin anyones fun.  But if you are going to drive in into hostile teritory and expect it to be around long, better defend it.

[Lusche]

Personally I'd love to see a central "big island" type concept with unporkable/uncapturable bases for the "furballers" and the rest of the map for those who want to "fight the war"...

We have that. Big Furball Area in DA. No war to be won there.

Honestly, knowing the skill level disparity between the two groups we'd probably be pretty dang good at shutting their dweebery down.

I wouldn't be too sure about that in every case.

[Solar10]

"The game is about aerial combat and that takes precedence to everything else." - Pyro


http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,9645.0.html

Aerial combat is not just furballing.  Aerial combat also includes flying cap, fighter sweeps, and bomber missions.

[1Boner]

BRING BACK THE FT WITH THE INDESTRUCTABLE FH's, NO TROOPS, AND A 30K HILL AROUND IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

in all seriousness I would love to see that map return.  If only to start hearing all the toolshedders whine about how everyone is wasting their time furballing over FT again.  That one always gets a good laugh outta me.






In all seriousness, I would hate to see that map return. If only to start hearing all the furballers whine about how everyone is wasting their time taking bases again. That one always gets a good laugh outta me.



Greetings from Bizzaro world,

Renob




OOOOOOPS

[humble]

  Humble on the idea that buff guns are lazers..  They are just 50 cals and I can acuratly hit at 1K out in any 50 cal armed plane just a lil harder in a fighter because bombers are very stable where as a fighter will duck and weave a bit if your hand isn't steady.. 50 cal is 50 cal...

 On the dumbed down bomb sight I agree and was one of the first to complain on the forum when they changed it.. But again I guess this falls under the HTC bottom line subject. gotta make it real easy for everyone to attract more $

I tend to fly the A-20 a significant portion of the time, its got an amazing ability to absorb lead and keep on chugging along. I've absorbed 3 x 30mm from a 109K, multiple passes with hits from tiffies and C hogs without going down yet if I get tagged by a buff its almost a certain 1 ping death. Regardless of the official position of HTC I have zero doubt that defensive buff fire is significantly overmodelled since I've had this happen even with a single damaged straggler at distances well over 500 (the convergence setting for buff guns). If you hit a con at 1.0 in a buff your at double convergence....yet the firepower far exceeds the killing power of 2 x .50.

I have no arguement with a guy flying up the rear hemisphere of a buff "V" and getting eviserated at 500 out. But when you get 1 pinged to the tower at 1.5 in the vertical oblique on a high front QTR shot thats insane (and it also eliminates this added energy due to your flying at the bullets element).

My issue isnt the ability to hit with the Buff guns, its the damage modeling. The other major issue is the manipulation of the coding for the formations, buff mini warps are more and more common as more guys learn the ropes. As far as I'm concerned the buff modeling needs to be tightened up so that either planes "pop" when they would warp or a collision factor is modeled in. IRL just learning to fly the required formations was hazerdous with training losses being high...

I'd have no issue with the gunnery modeling if the warping was addressed. As it stands the combination of running into warpy buffs, having buffs "beam away" and getting 1 timed at insane ranges makes buffs a target I tend to ignore.

[SkyRock]

  Humble on the idea that buff guns are lazers..  They are just 50 cals and I can acuratly hit at 1K out in any 50 cal armed plane just a lil harder in a fighter because bombers are very stable where as a fighter will duck and weave a bit if your hand isn't steady.. 50 cal is 50 cal...

I think what many of us detest about bomber guns, is the fact that all 36 are sync'd to shoot at one target.  It is cheasy, dweeeby, and gamey.  Besides GV's, the dive bombing/bomb bail/lazersync guns are the most gamed aspect of AH2!

[Bodhi]

Judging by the posts thus far, it is obvious that a fair number of people "really just don't get it".

Call it a whine, call it what you want, but Hub hit it spot on.  This one guy gets his flippin rocks off ruining other peoples fun. He does it by flying along in the most "gamey", "unrealistic" portion of the game...  dive bombing in level bombers.  As Hub said, sure, someone could have sat in the 5 inch gun on the cv or ran race tracks around it, but that is a rather bit boring. 

IMHO, 30 people that are having a good time that is ruined by one individual that is playing along in a way that is one of the most despised aspects of the game is not a good thing.  Call me "self centered" and "small minded" for wanting the good of the majority in this case over the will of individual seems to be quite a travesty involving word comphresion. 

It is this attitude that has so prevailed in the MA's that seems to have ruined all aspects of game play.  Nothing better than the timid little runtangs and other tards that game the scroing system as well.  The game play was nothing like this seven years ago.  Sure, things change, but again; IMHO, the game play has definitely changed for the worse, and we have lost a lot of really good players along the way that were not idiots running around dive bombing stuff in level bombers.  It's really sad.

[hubsonfire]

The DA is the Dueling Arena. It is not an MA, it is not some alternate sandbox where those of us who enjoy what has fueled this game since its inception must now be banished. Why don't those of you who are opposed to combat just fly offline, or in the AvA (where a more objective driven "war" is being fought)? Why must you insist on ruining gameplay for others? What is wrong with you that this is the only activity you enjoy? 

That "go somewhere else and **** yourself" reasoning works both ways. I'm not asking that you be banned from the MAs, but gameplay certainly wouldn't suffer in the least if that's the path you chose, whereas this game would become rather stale and entirely predictable if the only pursuit were to be slamming heavy bombers into the sides of CVs and hangars, although it would obviously appeal to quite a few of you.

I've never been purely a furballer, nor purely a toolshedder or tanktard or what have you. I have always enjoyed a little bit of everything in this game, but I've never enjoyed doing nothing but intentionally ruining someone else's idea of fun. That, unfortunately, is the singular focus of quite a few players, and that this would be viewed as a noble pursuit by some of you seems incomprehensible. What a miserable bunch of bastards you must be to enjoy nothing but griefing.

[Rebel]

Decrease vmax of bombers (excluding JU-88).  

Have a maximum speed for bomb drop (like 220 indicated, maybe).  

Add a perk penalty (on the fighter side to make it "stick") for a bomb n' bail (i.e. if plane has no damage, charge 50 perks for bail).

Add a maximum bailout speed to prevent purposeful diving to rip wings off and thus bail w/o penalty.

Add 'em all together and you're problem is fixed.  The good bomber pilots still worth a damn are happy, and nobody has to witness a dive bombing Lanc or -17 anymore.  

There.  

[Yeager]

a whine has been duly noted.

[Lusche]

Decrease vmax of bombers (excluding JU-88).  

Artificial speed cap is rather gamey. Besides that, buffs in LW MA are very vulnerable targets already and easy to shoot down. Most people complaining about them are usually just too lazy or not interested at all to hunt them down. Many buffs actually never get to their targets.

Have a maximum speed for bomb drop (like 220 indicated, maybe).  
If there is a real world technical justification for that, I wouldn't object (Any max speed limits for bomb bay doors?)

Add a perk penalty (on the fighter side to make it "stick") for a bomb n' bail (i.e. if plane has no damage, charge 50 perks for bail).
Simple fix for bomb'n'bailer: He will just crash

Add a maximum bailout speed to prevent purposeful diving to rip wings off and thus bail w/o penalty
It will take him only a few seconds more to wait for plane impact. No need to bail at all.

[Rebel]

I agree, the speed cap is gamey, but so is a B-17 diving down from 10,000 feet at 350 mph. 

I think there was a max speed for bomb doors, but I have absolutely no idea what it would be. 

Bomb n' bailer- good points.  *shrug*  Nothin' you can really do about that, I guess.

Funny thing, though- I've only seen a LancStuka once, and I've never seen a bomb n' bailer.  Most bombers I see try to land their sorties.  Doesn't matter, really, they're all relatively easy prey for my P47. 

[1Boner]

While I agree that dive bombing heavies are an abomination, I disagree with the idea of not bombing a cv or field if a large furball is present.

If I up a set of buffs and fly 2-3 (or more) sectors to bomb what initially seemed like an attempted base take, why should I have to agonize over whether or not someone down there might be "having fun"?

Should I :
             
A.  Take a poll on the "fun" factor of the furball and let the majority decide if I should drop my bombs or not?

B. Ask politely on 200 if anyone would mind if I sunk the CV?

C. Sink the CV? ( after all it's destructable for a reason)

D. Upon spotting the furball, just RTB so I don,t take the chance of ruining even one persons idea of fun.



Undecidedly Yours,

Boner