Author Topic: Suicide bombers and why  (Read 11854 times)

Offline pluck

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Re: Suicide bombers and why
« Reply #105 on: March 07, 2008, 09:21:36 PM »
It's really not about who has the right to do what...it's more about the context.  I certainly, nor would some others, suggest that bombs should not be falling.  I wouldn't say toolshedders should stop their endless campaign to wipe out every toolshed. 

there are some dedicated bomber pilots and strat guys who will not take out cv's just because they can.  If they see people enjoying a fight, they will wait, at least until it appears the fight is rapidly declining....5 minutes later, the cv goes down, and no harm no foul.

to say "just defend it" is a remark made without even taking the time to think about the issue. a) we are defending it  b) most furballers aren't going to climb to 10k and circle a cv waiting for buffs....If we did that, then we wouldn't be furballing, so what would be the point? I don't think anyone could argue about the ease at which a cv can be brought down, despite defenses either way.  Also, and again, the comment about their being a furball island in the DA is lacking, as anyone who has flown there, looking for a furball, would surely understand.

At this point what else is their to say, you either get or you don't.  It's not my issue if people can not understand why others would be unhappy with the specific issue (not the general) one at hand.  Though it does not surprise me, as there are plenty of people out there who seeming love to eat lots of beans, get on a subway, and let em rip...then wonder why all the disgusted faces.  "just hold your breath" would seemingly be the answer.
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Offline evenhaim

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Re: Suicide bombers and why
« Reply #106 on: March 07, 2008, 09:34:43 PM »
I personally dont see how someone can see and awsome cv battle going hear the excitment, and yet think o wait lets bomb this cv cause of course 1 person's fun is more important than that of 20 or 40. IMHO its just lame.
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Offline DoNKeY

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Re: Suicide bombers and why
« Reply #107 on: March 07, 2008, 09:37:58 PM »
This got me thinking, how close can you "park" the cv to the shore right off the enemy base?  Like three feet if you zoom in on the clipboard and don't make the waypoint touch land?

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Offline DrDea

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Re: Suicide bombers and why
« Reply #108 on: March 07, 2008, 09:51:03 PM »
  I was flying with Bodhi in that mess cause hes a squadie.While I agree the plastering of the CV in divebombing Buffs is seriously lame,and happens all to often from the weak little no skill ultra melons that cant bare to risk a jabo to do the job  I will also Jabo every CV I see regardless of whos fun it cramps because to me its a lot more fun to blast a CV into rubble.That being said,that was a seriously fun furball and the cv just got to close to the base.Cv gets close...cv dies.Thats all there is to it.
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Offline FrodeMk3

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Re: Suicide bombers and why
« Reply #109 on: March 07, 2008, 10:07:12 PM »
Dogfighting.. Furballing.

Shooting down planes, right? Bombers' are planes, too. If it's red and flying, its' a threat; SHOOT IT DOWN!!!

You really believe it's hard to shoot down bombers? Harder than winning a dogfight? It's not only easy but boring 9 times out of 10. 

So are some fighter sticks' in this game. And there's bomber sticks' in here that will eat your lunch. Tatertot and 999000 come immediately to mind.


Why does a toolsheder have to bomb a CV with a good furball depending on it?  Does it differ somehow from any other CV?  The only difference is that other players are having fun using it..  It's as lame as taking command from someone using a CV (for, you guessed it, combat) just for the sake of it, and then doing nothing with it.

If a CV was simply a floating airfield, launching nothing but strictly fighters, I would actually tend to agree with you on this. However, CV groups' contain everything you need to be a genuine threat to a field, i.e. Heavy artillery, ordnance, troops, and ways' to get them there. CV's are, and always have been, high-priority targets, both in RL, and in the game. If airfields' are defended against attack, why shouldn't the CV?

What does the toolsheder give to the furballers in exchange for his bombing their CV?  Nothing.

I beg to differ. The Toolshedder gives incentive to defend the CV. An LA-7 off of the airfield is not a threat to the CV; a formation of buffs' is. Think of it this way:Why go play blackjack in Las Vegas, if there's not any money on the table? Taking the CV in close to a field is akin to placing your bet on the table. Now you're playing for something more tangible.

Offline GooseAW

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Re: Suicide bombers and why
« Reply #110 on: March 07, 2008, 10:11:38 PM »
 WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA to all of ya! Been happenin for years...and hopefully 10 more.  :rock
« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 10:13:30 PM by GooseAW »

Offline moot

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Re: Suicide bombers and why
« Reply #111 on: March 07, 2008, 11:02:46 PM »
Frode type outside the quote if you can...
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Shooting down planes, right? Bombers' are planes, too. If it's red and flying, its' a threat; SHOOT IT DOWN!!!
Zzz  A plane that sits still and is as big as a barn... Yeah right, there's better things to use ammo on.  Especialy if they're exploiting the external view to aim.


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So are some fighter sticks' in this game. And there's bomber sticks' in here that will eat your lunch. Tatertot and 999000 come immediately to mind.
I've killed em both pretty much everytime I ran into them.. Lost a rad at worst.  And rumour is they're the first ones to use the exploit.  I wouldn't be surprised.  Either way they're boring.


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If a CV was simply a floating airfield, launching nothing but strictly fighters, I would actually tend to agree with you on this. However, CV groups' contain everything you need to be a genuine threat to a field, i.e. Heavy artillery, ordnance, troops, and ways' to get them there. CV's are, and always have been, high-priority targets, both in RL, and in the game. If airfields' are defended against attack, why shouldn't the CV?
I never said the opposite.. If the CV has won the fight, and the fight spills over the field so that it's not an even fight anymore, then yes, sink it.. There's no more dogfighting to expect from it. That's common sense.
But saying that just because something can potentialy be something else, it should be treated as something else pre-emptively.. That's stretching it.

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I beg to differ. The Toolshedder gives incentive to defend the CV.

Boring almost everytime.  And it's beside the point.. The point is that toolsheders are the ones forcing their gameplay on others.  Anyone can climb to the bombers' alt, and make fast and clean passes and blow the thing back to the tower, but it's boring.  Do you honestly expect people to have more fun climbing out for 15min+ to kill one lousy formation of fat chicks? Zzz
 
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An LA-7 off of the airfield is not a threat to the CV; a formation of buffs' is.

I don't see the relation.
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Think of it this way:Why go play blackjack in Las Vegas, if there's not any money on the table? Taking the CV in close to a field is akin to placing your bet on the table. Now you're playing for something more tangible.
Huh?  CV off a base = furball.  That's all there is to it.  Since there's no attrition from using up planes from a field, there's effectively an infinite amout of cash on that blackjack table.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 11:06:04 PM by moot »
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Offline hubsonfire

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Re: Suicide bombers and why
« Reply #112 on: March 08, 2008, 01:05:04 AM »
I honestly don't understand the mindset here. You've got guys on both sides of the fight complaining about the actions of their opponents/teammates, using tactics that are considered lame by anyone who is interested more in the spirit of the game than simple griefing, and yet the only person who is entitled to play the game the way they want is the griefer? What sort of logic is that?

As to what someone might have done or what would be considered acceptable if the situation was not as described- that has nothing to do with anything. You've got accounts from numerous people on both sides of the fight, describing what really happened, and yet you rationalize the griefing by listing all sorts of things that might have happened had the situation been different- completely irrelevant.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 01:06:41 AM by hubsonfire »
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Offline thndregg

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Re: Suicide bombers and why
« Reply #113 on: March 08, 2008, 01:24:11 AM »
Well, with a wee bit of this stuff..., I had fun sinking a Rook boat at 8K while cons tried to kill me. After a two week break, I ran missions to "toolshed" bases and take them. Did I have fun? Yes. Did I ruin some poor soul's day elsewhere?

Too drunk to care,

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Offline FrodeMk3

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Re: Suicide bombers and why
« Reply #114 on: March 08, 2008, 02:17:36 AM »
Quote
Shooting down planes, right? Bombers' are planes, too. If it's red and flying, its' a threat; SHOOT IT DOWN!!!
Zzz  A plane that sits still and is as big as a barn... Yeah right, there's better things to use ammo on.  Especialy if they're exploiting the external view to aim.



Quote
So are some fighter sticks' in this game. And there's bomber sticks' in here that will eat your lunch. Tatertot and 999000 come immediately to mind.
I've killed em both pretty much everytime I ran into them.. Lost a rad at worst.  And rumour is they're the first ones to use the exploit.  I wouldn't be surprised.  Either way they're boring.

By that rationale then, the damn CV shoulda stayed afloat, as a matter of fact, CV sinkings' should be rare. But 90% of the time, even if the CV captures' the field, it gets' sunk in the process. Which means' the bombers' made it from the radar circle to the CV entirely without getting intercepted. The Buffs' get through. Probably because they aren't the easy targets' you say they are, Moot.


Quote
If a CV was simply a floating airfield, launching nothing but strictly fighters, I would actually tend to agree with you on this. However, CV groups' contain everything you need to be a genuine threat to a field, i.e. Heavy artillery, ordnance, troops, and ways' to get them there. CV's are, and always have been, high-priority targets, both in RL, and in the game. If airfields' are defended against attack, why shouldn't the CV?
I never said the opposite.. If the CV has won the fight, and the fight spills over the field so that it's not an even fight anymore, then yes, sink it.. There's no more dogfighting to expect from it. That's common sense.
But saying that just because something can potentialy be something else, it should be treated as something else pre-emptively.. That's stretching it.

As I stated previously, a CV can spawn infinite amounts' of aircraft. Enough of them become a horde. If the bomber pilot waits' too long, his window of oppurtunity dissappears, because by the time he get's over the CV, it's too late to do anything to save a field. So the Buff driver is obliged to up and attack the CV at his earliest oppurtunity. He does this purely because of the potential of what the CV can become. He has to.


Quote
I beg to differ. The Toolshedder gives incentive to defend the CV.

Boring almost everytime.  And it's beside the point.. The point is that toolsheders are the ones forcing their gameplay on others.  Anyone can climb to the bombers' alt, and make fast and clean passes and blow the thing back to the tower, but it's boring.  Do you honestly expect people to have more fun climbing out for 15min+ to kill one lousy formation of fat chicks? Zzz

Because if you let a CV get sunk, That's how long it's gonna take to fly a sector from another base, to get back to the original fight. There's your point for "incentive." You're literally fighting for your fun...But fightings' the name of the game after all, isn't it?
 

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An LA-7 off of the airfield is not a threat to the CV; a formation of buffs' is.

I don't see the relation.

You're on the tail of an enemy LaLa. You're shooting this guy down. At this moment, you have your fun in hand. But the formation of Buffs' that have just gotten through the dar ring, are looking to hit your CV. Now you can keep killing the LA as he ups. But you won't have nothing to RTB to, because you neglected your CV. If you had climbed out, and intercepted the Buffs', your fun continues. The LA will still be there when you get back, btw.

Quote
Think of it this way:Why go play blackjack in Las Vegas, if there's not any money on the table? Taking the CV in close to a field is akin to placing your bet on the table. Now you're playing for something more tangible.
Huh?  CV off a base = furball.  That's all there is to it.  Since there's no attrition from using up planes from a field, there's effectively an infinite amout of cash on that blackjack table.

The CV isn't infinite, once it get's sunk. The CV is your wager; The planes' are simply cards.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 02:26:15 AM by FrodeMk3 »

Offline moot

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Re: Suicide bombers and why
« Reply #115 on: March 08, 2008, 03:05:48 AM »
Frode this is how it works:  {quote} and {/quote} with [ ] instead of { }

By that rationale then, the damn CV shoulda stayed afloat, as a matter of fact, CV sinkings' should be rare. But 90% of the time, even if the CV captures' the field, it gets' sunk in the process. Which means' the bombers' made it from the radar circle to the CV entirely without getting intercepted. The Buffs' get through. Probably because they aren't the easy targets' you say they are, Moot.
No, the rationale is that both climbing up to bombers and shooting at them is boring.  There's just no interest in leaving a good furball to fly at some ackstar.  The bombers do make it thru the radar circle because they're flying 10 thousand feet above the furball...  There's only one plane that can react to that small a window and it's the 163.   
And bombers are the easy targets I say they are..  tatertot and 999 might be hard but they're not so hard that the right acm won't take em down.  It'll be even easier once HTC squashes the external view exploit.

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As I stated previously, a CV can spawn infinite amounts' of aircraft. Enough of them become a horde.
CVs are the same as airfields.. I don't see how the CV is anymore of a potential horde than the FHs..  What's your point? 
 If the bomber pilot waits' too long, his window of oppurtunity dissappears, because by the time he get's over the CV, it's too late to do anything to save a field. So the Buff driver is obliged to up and attack the CV at his earliest oppurtunity. He does this purely because of the potential of what the CV can become. He has to.
Kill a CV and the fight will come from elsewhere.. If there's no nearby fields, it's game over for the CV attackers.  And I disagree bombers have no way to predict if a furball is getting out of hand.  It's common to have someone on country channel say that a CV needs sinking..  Soon enough the bombers show up and drop it.

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Because if you let a CV get sunk, That's how long it's gonna take to fly a sector from another base, to get back to the original fight. There's your point for "incentive." You're literally fighting for your fun...But fightings' the name of the game after all, isn't it?
 
And the point that's repeatedly gone over your head apparently, is that there's no reason for those bombers to extinguish others' fun when those others aren't requiring those bombers' doing so.. A balanced furball will go on until people have had enough and log off.  There's no need for those bombers to bomb anything.  Players like FORTRESS aside.. "It made me feel good".  His feeling good was more important than 30 people having a blast dogfighting.  If that isn't griefing, I dunno what is.

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You're on the tail of an enemy LaLa. You're shooting this guy down. At this moment, you have your fun in hand. But the formation of Buffs' that have just gotten through the dar ring, are looking to hit your CV. Now you can keep killing the LA as he ups. But you won't have nothing to RTB to, because you neglected your CV. If you had climbed out, and intercepted the Buffs', your fun continues. The LA will still be there when you get back, btw.
You don't get it..  I can kill buffs anytime.. I do kill buffs anytime..And it's boring.  It's even more boring in the case of CV defense because you have to troll around waiting for buffs to show up, since once they're in the dar circle they're too close to be intercepted before their drop unless you've got enough altitude.  How in the heck do you not get this?  It's boring to fly cap over a freakin CV, doing nothing.  Even shooting those bombers is boring, especialy if you can see an actual dogfight going on below while you sit like a duck waiting for some eventual toolsheder. 

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The CV isn't infinite, once it get's sunk. The CV is your wager; The planes' are simply cards.
And those are who's rules?  Yours?  Who made you the boss here?  I don't kill BHs nor ordnance unless bombers are screwing up a good fight.. I'm not talking about steam rolling of any kind. 

I'm done typing at this topic, way too tedious.
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Suicide bombers and why
« Reply #116 on: March 08, 2008, 05:47:23 AM »


                      Yeah imagine that? Someone actually playing in the team concept, interrupting their furball fun, and taking out ords or flying high and tight defensively? Just imagine that? Course this game is like modern life and "its all about me" isn't it? Dont "you have fun" by bombing a CV cause your going to interrupt me having fun. Last night I was in a CV furball and actually heard Rooks on the vox, "dont bomb the CV". Hows that for a combat flight sim? :lol

                     I wonder how long it takes to get a seafire up to 10k? Maybe a few minutes?? Not that most bombers even bother to climb that high. About 6k is the average. Course the CV is already down by the time the level bombers get there, due to the dive bombing, anyways.

                    Chasing your tail 500' off the water in an endless furball is not defending a CV. Not even close! Ive lost count of the times ive taken off from a nearby base with ords still up and flew over a CV uncontested from even 6k up. None of the 3 teams here "defends their CVs". Not properly. Most CV fights end up as a baby seal clubbing contest anyways.


It's really not about who has the right to do what...it's more about the context.  I certainly, nor would some others, suggest that bombs should not be falling.  I wouldn't say toolshedders should stop their endless campaign to wipe out every toolshed. 

there are some dedicated bomber pilots and strat guys who will not take out cv's just because they can.  If they see people enjoying a fight, they will wait, at least until it appears the fight is rapidly declining....5 minutes later, the cv goes down, and no harm no foul.

to say "just defend it" is a remark made without even taking the time to think about the issue. a) we are defending it  b) most furballers aren't going to climb to 10k and circle a cv waiting for buffs....If we did that, then we wouldn't be furballing, so what would be the point? I don't think anyone could argue about the ease at which a cv can be brought down, despite defenses either way.  Also, and again, the comment about their being a furball island in the DA is lacking, as anyone who has flown there, looking for a furball, would surely understand.

At this point what else is their to say, you either get or you don't.  It's not my issue if people can not understand why others would be unhappy with the specific issue (not the general) one at hand.  Though it does not surprise me, as there are plenty of people out there who seeming love to eat lots of beans, get on a subway, and let em rip...then wonder why all the disgusted faces.  "just hold your breath" would seemingly be the answer.
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Offline NCLawman

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Re: Suicide bombers and why
« Reply #117 on: March 08, 2008, 07:30:03 AM »
Sloe, I know who it was, and I know why they did it.  They do it to piss people off.  I even got a PM about it after because they thought it was so funny... 

I am not against buffs, sinking cv's, or the strat war at all.  I just hate dive bombing jackoffs in buffs sinking cv's in the most unrealistic manner possible.  Face it, it is really hard to defend against a group of B-17's diving on a cv from 10k.

Either way, it does not matter.  Some people agree, others do not, some don't care.  The fact that a few came in and dropped some cheap shots at me really doesn't matter either.  It shows me that they are not looking at the whole issue, and instead choose to be griefers as opposed to helping find a solution. 


So, if this person did something SOLELY to annoy you, how much satisfaction did you just give him starting an 8-page thread about him?    :rock

If a person's behavior is acting like a child - I believe it was equated to a "take my ball and go home" type - then coming here to raise hell and draw attention to it is counterproductive to your goal.  You have just fed this person's ego and through this attention, encouraged him to continue to do it.  If you want this person to stop acting like a little Chit-bag, then ignore him.  The fun wears off if there is no one to argue or get P.O.ed about it. 

<salute>  :aok

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Offline dedalos

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Re: Suicide bombers and why
« Reply #118 on: March 08, 2008, 07:57:27 AM »
Within the DA map is an area entitled "Furballing."

Within the DA map is an area for bombing too.  Why is it empty?
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Suicide bombers and why
« Reply #119 on: March 08, 2008, 08:46:38 AM »
I personally dont see how someone can see and awsome cv battle going hear the excitment, and yet think o wait lets bomb this cv cause of course 1 person's fun is more important than that of 20 or 40. IMHO its just lame.
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