A new low has been reached.....

[toonces3]

What sort of punitive actions?  Most people that would either bail or auger like this probably care less about most "punitive reprecussions".  Besides, how you you gage a legitimate bail/auger from an illegitimate one?

Something needs to be done, but not sure what or how.

As I already said repeatedly in the suicide bombers thread:

Attach a time limit before damage caused by bombers/jabo becomes 'permanent'.

If the aircraft that dropped the ords doesn't survive for some pre-determined period of time, say 10 minutes, then the damage is removed.  Call it 'successful damage control'.    This wouldn't prevent the bail after 10 minutes of course, but it would eliminate the suicide pork because the damage would be removed upon suicide, rendering the whole mission pointless.

Lynx suggested a small perk for formations- I agree with that as well.  Not alot, say 2-4 perks per buff.  Heck even I can land 4 perks on a bomber sortie, and I barely ever fly them.

I don't know what's going on on this board lately.  In the last 2 days I've found myself agreeing with both Hub and Skyrock.

[Strip]

The problem I see with perking heavies is thats where many new players end up. Its alot easier to drop a bomb than it is to learn ACM's. This is where I started simply because I thought I was getting stuff done that would help my country. However when I did buff runs I' would usually drop down and hope to pick up a few cons. Lets face it.....if I wanted to just bomb I could go to IL2 or something with better eyecandy. I wanted to shoot stuff down! In the very begining this is where I thought I had the best chance.

IMHO When a new player starts playing the game he is exposed to different styles of game play. On country channel the loudest people are usually base takers. I cant even remember the last time I saw a fighter sweep mission. This teaches new people to want to just take bases......usually at any cost. My point is the weak/base take people are taking the new (usually read squeaker) players and teaching them new forms of dweebery. Perhaps in a year or so these new players will indoctrinate a newer generation of players increasing the skill gap further in the process.

I think the answer is to teach young players that this isnt the way to play. I think you need to keep it at least remotely based on real life. I myself try to enter a fight at above 10k or higher (Id go higher if needed but I dont see anyone that high usually). I think the challenge has shifted, in the eyes of most, from the ability to preform ACM's to the ability to take bases. I spent alot of last night looking for a fight. What I got was mostly runners.....til they had over welming odds. Me wanting a fight any fight would inevitably get engaged and ganged. I was mad...pissed...even livid...at myself. I know, as I did then, exactly what was gonna happen. I had F4Us and Seafires running from my Poni B.....which BTW I was more than willing to turn with them even to the death.

In general I think the new generation of players thinks its better to drop 2 bombs on a hanger than to shoot a single enemy con down. Til that changes you wont get anything different.

  Strip(er)

[Strip]

Rich I guarantee NOBODY regularly slays Skyrock. Sure you might get lucky, perhaps even twice but the devil always gets is man.

Strip(er)

[Lusche]

Attach a time limit before damage caused by bombers/jabo becomes 'permanent'.

If the aircraft that dropped the ords doesn't survive for some pre-determined period of time, say 10 minutes, then the damage is removed.

Cool!
So there is not even a need for trying to stop buffs before they reach their target. It's sufficient to kill them somwhere on their return trip and *poof* the magic works and all damage is undone. I can't think of many things mroe gamey than this.
It's punishing the "honest buffer" as well. You fight your way to a heavily defended target, manage to sucessfully hit your target and then you succumb to the horde trailing your six going after a RTB buff box instead of fighting all inbound enemies. *poof* again, your damage is undone.

As for perking all bomber formations, there will be another side effect: The buff formations that still up will start to fly really high on a regular base. A new chapter of whining will start about "All you now see are lame 25k buffs!"...

[SkyRock]

                    Psssss, I got a secret. Its only a computer game so who cares?  

Then why did you reply to my factual statement?
                    
 

Besides we both fly Rook.

I switch with the numbers, so you won't be able to hide!

Were it not you'd be just another of the thousands I regularly slay.  

I ackownlege the fact that you are dreaming during this statement, but it still will not make it happen.  You will get slapped back into an la7 at the drop of my will!

                    

[Masherbrum]

Then why did you reply to my factual statement?
                   
 
I switch with the numbers, so you won't be able to hide!
I ackownlege the fact that you are dreaming during this statement, but it still will not make it happen.  You will get slapped back into an la7 at the drop of my will!

                     

[Heater]

Easy way to fix this plus some of the other Dweeb Moves would be too

if you bail from a un-damaged plane of any type you must wait 15 Min to Up again....
or you must re-up from a random base as far away from the front line as possible....

[toonces3]

Lusche,
You've been playing a long time, and I've grown to respect your opinions on this board.

I can only speak for myself here.  When I see bombers, it really doesn't matter if they're incoming or outgoing, I still try to kill them if I have the speed and alt to attack them properly.

Again, speaking for myself, I wouldn't NOT attack bombers inbound just because if I killed them outbound their damage wouldn't count.  I'd try to kill them both ways.  I don't think such a coad would change the tactics of fighters attacking buffs, but then again, folks have an amazing capacity for finding the gamey exploits in this game, so I suppose such an attitude change is possible.

At any rate, I can see your point that this would penalize buff pilots doing their thing 'for real' but only if they came in in a manner that allowed them to get killed within a few minutes of bombing.  I've only flown a handful of buff missions, but I've found that getting over 15k thins out the opposition significantly.  When I fly buffs, I figure I'm commiting at least 45 minutes or more to the mission to allow for climbout and transit to target.  I assume I'm going to have to spend 20 minutes getting to alt.  So, the idea of a mass of fighters attempting to kill me RTB doesn't really bother ME- I plan my route to drop on my egress heading, and a set of buffs at full speed at alt is NOT easy to catch and attack properly.  So, in my opinion, all you've done by coading a time delay on permanent damage is force 'real' buff pilots to fly at least at some sort of survivable alt and use a smidge of planning in their attack.

I agree that it's trading one sort of gameyness for another so I suppose the question is which sort of gameyness you prefer?  For me, the bomb and bail guys and the suicide porkers are the most distracting things in this game.  

[SkyRock]

I like the idea of if they drop and bail within so many seconds/minutes of their bombs dropping, they will be forced to up any bomber from so and so sectors away from where they upped.  But then again, they would just dive bomb/auger them into the hangars or target!

[ROX]

Around 3:15 a.m.  today I saw the lamest thing yet.  The knights, upped a 7 formation bomber +escorts raid at A100 on the ozkanasa map, then after they dropped, they bailed from the bombers and upped from a CV to capture the base after they flattend it. 

   I would like to skin and dip in salt these players,  some of us actually bothered to up planes to engage them only to be meet with this new low. 


Shame on the knights who took part in that crap mission.

I was asleep when this occurred, but...

Let's see...

An organized group of players used strategy and all the tools available to take a base......

I see ALL countries do this HUNDREDS of times over the years...

Two days ago, knights beat back the same strategic "take" attempt by the bish in the North American light of day by one of the bishops most respected squads....so what's the big deal?

I can only provide the cheese....

For that whine.

[LYNX]

as qouted by Lusche

As for perking all bomber formations, there will be another side effect: The buff formations that still up will start to fly really high on a regular base. A new chapter of whining will start about "All you now see are lame 25k buffs!"...

Basically...I don't think that would happen and so what if they do.  It's not happened in the past.  Lusche your a clever and articulate chap.  Have a think about it.  This Nintendo style "what ever it takes to get the job done" bomber problem is lazy folk.  Not hard core or even moderate bomber players.  It's guys that use bombers solely as a means to an end.  It's the easiest option to cause the most amount of damage irrespective of virtual deaths.  Deaths that are meaningless to this type of player.  Take the AR234 as an example.  How many of these planes to you see bomb and bail or suicide a base or CV ?  Could it be 1 to 3% of all prop bombers that do it?  It's certainly not high %.

as quoted by Strip

IMHO When a new player starts playing the game he is exposed to different styles of game play. On country channel the loudest people are usually base takers. I cant even remember the last time I saw a fighter sweep mission. This teaches new people to want to just take bases......usually at any cost. My point is the weak/base take people are taking the new (usually read squeaker) players and teaching them new forms of dweebery. Perhaps in a year or so these new players will indoctrinate a newer generation of players increasing the skill gap further in the process.

I agree and needs nipping in the bud before it's the norm.  As it is it's getting near epidemic at the weekends.  Start the clock now it's Friday. 

When I started here planes were fighting higher.  Bombers were flying high.  Skill levels were high and the channel 1 banter was of a higher caliber although in a similar vain.  Anyways,  there's far more vulching now and far more cherry picking over near capped fields these days.  So... as you intimate, left as it is it's only going to get worse.

If by some miracle the bomber dweebs were restricted, leaving just the guys that actually like to use bombers and do "bomber" missions then perhaps the fight could get back in the air where it belongs.  Perhaps the newbies would get into the style of things that the "advert" draws them here to do....perhaps!

[Ack-Ack]

                               You are a fool you know that boy? A silly, arrogant, babbling, little fool.

                               Only a pampered Mommies boy could possibly even consider spinning up a post like that, directed at a stranger, for a reason I cant even fathom. Im really surprised this Aces High company puts up with silly children like you.

He's got a point though...lay off the tab button.


ack-ack

[1Boner]

When someone is overstepping the bounds of decency in text or on vox, they can be reported.

Why not have a "report" funtion for suicide/bailers?

Of course there must be at least one film to confirm the report.

Then ban the offender from flying buffs for a set amount of time.

Like maybe 24 hours for 1st offence, and up to the rest of the month for repeat offenders.

Kinda like ascending punishments for DUIs.




Soberly yours,

Boner

[Lusche]

as qouted by Lusche

Basically...I don't think that would happen and so what if they do.  (...) Have a think about it.  This Nintendo style "what ever it takes to get the job done" bomber problem is lazy folk.  Not hard core or even moderate bomber players.  It's guys that use bombers solely as a means to an end.  It's the easiest option to cause the most amount of damage irrespective of virtual deaths.  Deaths that are meaningless to this type of player.  Take the AR234 as an example.  How many of these planes to you see bomb and bail or suicide a base or CV ?  Could it be 1 to 3% of all prop bombers that do it?  It's certainly not high %.

Hence my saying "the bombers that still up". I included these words intentionally

[Lusche]

When someone is overstepping the bounds of decency in text or on vox, they can be reported.

Why not have a "report" funtion for suicide/bailers?

Of course there must be at least one film to confirm the report.

I think HTC rejoyces in the thought of having to look at all these "lame gameplay" reports - or what any individual consider as such.