Weather Channel Founder: Sue Al Gore for Fraud

[crockett]

Also I wanted to add to this.. one thing is very certain. If the ice keeps melting we will have very serious problems here in the US as well as the rest of the world.

1) Much of the world's lower areas "will" be under water, that is a definite fact.

2) If the ice melts most of the US will have very serious water shortages.

Put it to you this way, where I live, it "will" be under water, yet where do you move? If the ice melts it won't be safe to live in the central US because there will be no water. So we have some drastic things that will effect this country and the world yet people argue about a catch phrase. The fact is as Camouflage posted the Ice "is" melting, it's clear as day in satellite photos.. Yea can't really argue with it.

Can we stop it or even slow it? I dunno but one thing is certain New York, Florida and all the other places being underwater will be pretty bad for the economy. Much less having no water for crops in the mid west. Lets just hope all that doesn't happen in our life times, but it is certain it will happen. So what are we doing to prepare for it? Not much...

[Hornet33]

Here is a question for all you global warming folks.

Do you think that the planet is supposed to stay just like it is forever?? Never warm up, never get colder, never lose landmass to the oceans, never have anything ever change from what the planet is like right now?

I'm always hearing people talk about how bad it will be when New York is under water and all the other hype about how "we" are changing the planet.

Guess what, the planet has been in a constant state of change since day one and it will never stop. Take a look at Hawaii. Those Islands are still growing from volcanic activity. The Rocky Mountains are erroding due to rain and wind. Some day Yellow Stone is going to explode and take out half of North America when it happens. California will fall off into the ocean some day (not soon enough for me but anyway).

The planet is in a constant state of evolution and nothing we do as humans is going to prevent it. Are we making it worse? I don't think so. The planet will do what it's going to do regardless of what we do. If anything we are consipring to our own destruction and not that of the planet and in all honesty I don't think that's a bad thing. The planet is going to reach the point where it can no longer sustain the human population and then we will die off in large numbers. Most likely we will be doing the killing. Once it's all over and the population has been reduced significanly, then it'll start all over again.

All in all it doesn't matter what we do or don't do, humans as a species are living on borrowed time anyway. In a million years or so we'll probably be nothing but a distant memory.

[lazs2]

crok-it.. we are still not that far off of agreement.

I agree that it is always best to conserve and to not pollute when it is at all possible.. when doing so does not cause more harm than good.. I am actually in that business.   

Let's use an example of what I am saying.. Let's say that there is some air pollution caused by gasoline being burned in automobiles.   Let's further say that.. everyone like cleaner air.   let's further say that the problem is fairly large and that cars are one of the main causes.. 

Let's now say that we could reduce the pollution by... oh.. some parts per billions which may.. or may not.. be noticeable...

In order to do that we can add an oxegenate to the fuel the cars burn for winter months.. a very dangerous chemical called MTBE is discovered to work well as an oxegenate but.. there is some evidence..  that if the stuff gets into the water supply..  it will poison the water and be almost impossible to remove.

Do we go ahead and do it anyway?

More to the point.. how much damage are willing to do to the social and economic welfare of everyone on the planet "just in case" some of the scientists on the globe are right about man having a "significant" effect on global climate?

answer..  if it means screwing in some CFL bulbs into your light fixtures.. It's a no brainer.   If it means a drain of trillions of bucks on a nations economy... well..  let's get both sides of the issue out in the open and let the people affected decide.

lazs

lazs

[MORAY37]

Here is a question for all you global warming folks.

Do you think that the planet is supposed to stay just like it is forever?? Never warm up, never get colder, never lose landmass to the oceans, never have anything ever change from what the planet is like right now?

I'm always hearing people talk about how bad it will be when New York is under water and all the other hype about how "we" are changing the planet.

Guess what, the planet has been in a constant state of change since day one and it will never stop. Take a look at Hawaii. Those Islands are still growing from volcanic activity. The Rocky Mountains are erroding due to rain and wind. Some day Yellow Stone is going to explode and take out half of North America when it happens. California will fall off into the ocean some day (not soon enough for me but anyway).

The planet is in a constant state of evolution and nothing we do as humans is going to prevent it. Are we making it worse? I don't think so. The planet will do what it's going to do regardless of what we do. If anything we are consipring to our own destruction and not that of the planet and in all honesty I don't think that's a bad thing. The planet is going to reach the point where it can no longer sustain the human population and then we will die off in large numbers. Most likely we will be doing the killing. Once it's all over and the population has been reduced significanly, then it'll start all over again.

All in all it doesn't matter what we do or don't do, humans as a species are living on borrowed time anyway. In a million years or so we'll probably be nothing but a distant memory.

Yet with all of your grandious talk you fail to realize...

A.  This species has not survived a major climate shift.  (The last "minor" blip, minor to our planet that is, almost eradicated us, pushing the worldwide population of Homo sapien to a point so low it can be seen in our current genetic makeup.  It is estimated only 10,000 individuals survived, and our genes can trace that.)

and

B. The shift in climate has always taken millenia to move a few degrees, and that is with known shifts in orbital inclination and orbital mechanics that our planet goes through. That much happened in the past 50 years.  You obviously don't get it.

[Fishu]

Also I wanted to add to this.. one thing is very certain. If the ice keeps melting we will have very serious problems here in the US as well as the rest of the world.

1) Much of the world's lower areas "will" be under water, that is a definite fact.

2) If the ice melts most of the US will have very serious water shortages.

Erm, the melting of polar cap on the ocean doesn't raise the water level. It's the land based ice and warming that raises the sea level. When the land based ice melts the resulting water will eventually drain into the ocean. Higher temperature causes water to expand, which will raise the sea level because the water doesn't fit into the space it used to fit.

Water is at it's densest form around 3 to 4 celcius (37.5 to 39 F to you americans). The difference in density doesn't really seem that much, but when you have millions of cubic liters it will be enough to bring the beach closer to you.

[Angus]

Pretty much the case.
The sea Ice will not raise SL, but all land based Ice will, and you'd be baffled to see what just the cap of Greenland can do.
Anyway, for the U.S.A., from where I heard ever so often "who cares" and "WTF with polar bears, LOL", finally I see this:
"If the ice melts most of the US will have very serious water shortages."+

Which is...true, as with many more areas of course...

[pallero]

Its gonna be cold soon. *click*

[Hornet33]

Yet with all of your grandious talk you fail to realize...

A.  This species has not survived a major climate shift.  (The last "minor" blip, minor to our planet that is, almost eradicated us, pushing the worldwide population of Homo sapien to a point so low it can be seen in our current genetic makeup.  It is estimated only 10,000 individuals survived, and our genes can trace that.)

and

B. The shift in climate has always taken millenia to move a few degrees, and that is with known shifts in orbital inclination and orbital mechanics that our planet goes through. That much happened in the past 50 years.  You obviously don't get it.

I get it perfectly fine and thank you for proving my point that no matter what we do as a species, we have NO control over what the planet is going to do. We can't control the planets orbit, tectonic plates, or the weather. Nature will do what it's going to do. Humans are just along for the ride.

[MORAY37]

I get it perfectly fine and thank you for proving my point that no matter what we do as a species, we have NO control over what the planet is going to do. We can't control the planets orbit, tectonic plates, or the weather. Nature will do what it's going to do. Humans are just along for the ride.

YET you don't get it, because in this case WE are doing it, not nature.  Things on this planet don't happen according to the human timeline....they happen at the planet's timeline, which is much more elongated. We are shifting the climate here, and the evidence is growing, not decreasing as Lazs constantly tries to make you believe. The climate is moving at our behest, whether you choose to educate yourself to the reasons or not is up to you.

 You simply can't change the surface of the earth, the oceans and the thin veil of an atmosphere around it so much and expect it not to.

Perhaps you may yet get to bury your head in the sands of the now expanding desert regions, and pretend it's not happening.

[alskahawk]

John Coleman (founder of the weather channel) is one of the most brilliant weathermen EVER.  He was on channel 7 in Chicago, and I grew up watching him.

"It will get down to 32 degrees in the Loop, and down to 26 degrees in The Boonies"

That guy was a HOOT!

ROX

 Brilliant? For pulling paper off a teletype and talking about the weather makes him brilliant? No. Tell when the next ice age is going to hit and then I might think hes smart or just a good guesser.

[crockett]

Erm, the melting of polar cap on the ocean doesn't raise the water level. It's the land based ice and warming that raises the sea level. When the land based ice melts the resulting water will eventually drain into the ocean. Higher temperature causes water to expand, which will raise the sea level because the water doesn't fit into the space it used to fit.

Water is at it's densest form around 3 to 4 celcius (37.5 to 39 F to you americans). The difference in density doesn't really seem that much, but when you have millions of cubic liters it will be enough to bring the beach closer to you.

Yes I didn't mean to say the ice that's already in the water would raise the deal level. However they are both interlinked so it's kinda like peas and carrots as Forrest Gump would say..

[alskahawk]

 Anyone see the show on the history channel that talks of the last ice age in N america? It happened in the early 1800s (I think). Very interesting. New York harbor froze. Snow in July. Well maybe not that interesting since I don't remember the specifics about it.
 
 Here are some factors affecting the earth in the next 50 years. Population. Currently 6 billion. Went from 2 billion after ww2 to 6 billion today. A million years to get to 2 billion. 60+ years to gain 4 billion. Fossel fuels. Demand rising. Particularly in China, India and other developing nations. Most optimistic prediction on oil production peak; 2030. Domestic production(?) peaked 1990s. We may not have to worry about global warming.

[Hornet33]

YET you don't get it, because in this case WE are doing it, not nature.  Things on this planet don't happen according to the human timeline....they happen at the planet's timeline, which is much more elongated. We are shifting the climate here, and the evidence is growing, not decreasing as Lazs constantly tries to make you believe. The climate is moving at our behest, whether you choose to educate yourself to the reasons or not is up to you.

 You simply can't change the surface of the earth, the oceans and the thin veil of an atmosphere around it so much and expect it not to.

Perhaps you may yet get to bury your head in the sands of the now expanding desert regions, and pretend it's not happening.

So your saying that if humans stopped polluting and doing all the bad things that the "global warming" folks spew forth on a regular basis, then the world as we know it will stay just like it is and never change?

My point is nothing we do or don't do is going to stop the earth from changing. Are we causing the changes to happen at a faster rate? I don't know and neither does anyone else and anyone who says they do know is full of crap. I've read all the arguments on both sides of the issue and what strikes me as the common denominator on both sides is neither has been able to provide a single FACT thats points to mankind causing global warming. Plenty of theories and guess's but that's it. Any so called fact provided by either side can have holes shot in them by the other side and if that's the case then it's NOT a fact at all.

Case in point, polar ice caps. GW guys, they're shrinking....there is the proof. Non GW guys, they've shrunk before and that was when there was no polution.  It's a totaly circular aurgument and neither side is going to win.

Personally I could give a crap. If the planet self destructs or we end up killing ourselves by changing the enviroment, so be it. Too many people on this rock anyway, we need a major disaster to cull the population. If the GW folks don't like my opinion or think I'm clueless, well you have your right to your opinion, just as I do, but you don't have the right to dictate how I live my life to please your ideas of how humans should live. I live my life how I see fit and if it's not "green" enough to suit someone else, screw em.

[lazs2]

moray pontificated....

"they happen at the planet's timeline, which is much more elongated. We are shifting the climate here, and the evidence is growing, not decreasing as Lazs constantly tries to make you believe. The climate is moving at our behest, whether you choose to educate yourself to the reasons or not is up to you."

moray.. you have no evidence of any of that.. the climate has changed faster in the past than it has in the last decades.. The evidence is not growing.. more and more scientists are falling off the man made global warming bandwagon as the earth goes into another perfectly natural cooling cycle.

You have no idea what the "planets timeline" is..  if you do then you are the only person who does..  you don't know if we are shifting anything because the math doesn't add up on all of the so called co2 science.

The truth is that we understand very little about the complex interactions of all the natural things that affect climate including the most important..

The sun and... water vapor..  both are the biggest influences in our climate and neither has anything to do with man.

lazs

[JBA]

this just in.
The Mystery of Global Warming's Missing Heat
by Richard Harris

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88520025

So Willis has been studying the ocean with a fleet of robotic instruments called the Argo system. The buoys can dive 3,000 feet down and measure ocean temperature. Since the system was fully deployed in 2003, it has recorded no warming of the global oceans.
"There has been a very slight cooling, but not anything really significant," Willis says.


One possibility is that the sea has, in fact, warmed and expanded — and scientists are somehow misinterpreting the data from the diving buoys.
----------It's a Fraking thermostat how do you misinterpret that....guys when the thermostat points to the number that's the one you read...got it

Kevin Trenberth at the National Center for Atmospheric Research says it's probably going back out into space. The Earth has a number of natural thermostats, including clouds, which can either trap heat and turn up the temperature, or reflect sunlight and help cool the planet.
-------------So what you're saying is You have no Fraking idea....thanks we'll tune in later.