German Panther

[Rich46yo]

                                 Ive always thought the Panther was the best tank in the War. I'd love to see it in AH.

[ssDruid]

The German Panzerkampfwagen V is considered to be the best designed tank during World War II, but the T34 is ranked as the number one tank to be built during the same time.  It was easier to manufacture, massively produced and provided sloped armor for the crews.  Now if I had the choice it would have to be the Panther Aus G.
Ernst Barkmann had some remarkable engagements in his Panther against Shermans.  Barkman's Corner is a classic example of how superior tank crews could effectively use their vehicles to take on a much larger force.
Michael Wittman and the Battle of Villers Bocage is another example of a superior tank commander, a veteran of the Russian front, being in the right time at the right place to wreck havoc among a British armored column before they even knew what hit them.  He was in late version Tiger 1 with steel roadwheels.

[FrodeMk3]

I vote for more early-war armor. Something that will help with the lack of suitable GV's for early-and Mid war, and scenarios.

[Pooh21]

Except they weren't just facing 50,000 Shermans; Many Panthers' were sent east to stem the T-34 horde. Which is what the Panther was origanally designed to counter, anyway.

allied Zerg rush ftw.

[MiloMorai]

Michael Wittman and the Battle of Villers Bocage is another example of a superior tank commander, a veteran of the Russian front, being in the right time at the right place to wreck havoc among a British armored column before they even knew what hit them.  He was in late version Tiger 1 with steel roadwheels.

What kind of wheels did early Tigers have? Do you mean the removal of the rubber rim?

[mussie]

I have a post war US Army document that states something startling. M18 Hellcats were credited with killing 134 Panthers for the loss of 17 M18s in exchange. Indeed, the M1 76mm shooting HVAP was generally lethal for a Panther at any angle. When the M36 showed up in the fall of 1944, the US had a TD that could kill anything it might encounter. The Sherman was an infantry support tank, not designed specifically to fight other tanks. That role was to filled by Tank Destroyers (that was the theory, and the theory was obviously flawed). Even though 76mm Shermans gradually arrived in the ETO and Italy, they rarely had access to HVAP ammo. Usually, they would have to horse trade with supply personnel or TD units to get few rounds.

Last year, I posted a portion of a report where an M8 armored car destroyed a King Tiger with a few 37mm rounds. At 50 yards, the 37mm could easily penetrate the rear armor of the Tiger. In this case, the M8 cornered the behemoth on a narrow road and got off several rounds at  close range before the Tiger could get its turret around. Tiger go boom....

You get no guarantees in combat. Even the biggest, baddest tanks have weaknesses that can be exploited. 

My regards,

Widewing

LOL poor tiger crew..... imagine the WTF expression on the M8 gunners face

[ssDruid]

The early and mid production Tiger 1 had rubber rimmed roadwheels.  During the late model production all Tigers were equipped with the steel version roadwheel.  The same variation of the wheel can be found on some Panther Aus G's, known as the steel wheeled version.

[humble]

As WW has already mentioned the US did fairly well with both the upgunned shermans and the various TD's when involved in both a fluid "meeting engagement" or in a mobile defense. The primary problems the US had was in assaulting German defensive positions. The sherman was not a heavy tank and had a high silouette. The primary role of the Firelfy was in the overwatch position, it was distributed 1 per platoon and crews rotated turns. The firefly would standoff and engage anything that attacked the rest of the platoon. The US used the 76mm M4 the same way with a M4 "jumbo" utilized as colume lead whenever possible.

While the Panther was a tremendous tank it was also used in a defensive role with defined fields of fire and infantry/artillery/observation support most of the time. If you look at the bulge battles you'll see that even with no airpower, minimal artillery and very little armor or anti-tank capacity that the Germans were pretty heavily attrited in many places.

[Bodhi]

The early and mid production Tiger 1 had rubber rimmed roadwheels.  During the late model production all Tigers were equipped with the steel version roadwheel.  The same variation of the wheel can be found on some Panther Aus G's, known as the steel wheeled version.

I believe the Panther only had two sets of steel wheels on each side.  If my memory serves me, it was the last two sets.  Again, if my memory is right, it occured around the same time when they introduced the shocks on the first two sets of torsion bars to counter the porpoising that was experienced at speed.

[Puck]

LOL poor tiger crew..... imagine the WTF expression on the M8 gunners face

*snort*

This is news?  A pilot in the silk killed my Tiger with his .45 from 2000 yards. 

Any vehicle I get into automagically becomes a death trap.  All you people who land vehicle kills are ch...er..cheery bastages 

[ssDruid]

I believe the Panther only had two sets of steel wheels on each side.  If my memory serves me, it was the last two sets.  Again, if my memory is right, it occured around the same time when they introduced the shocks on the first two sets of torsion bars to counter the porpoising that was experienced at speed.

Bodhi,
There were Panthers that entire sets of roadwheels that were steel.


I found this picture on the internet.

[Bodhi]

Druid, that photo appears to be an artists rendition or a model with a photo back drop.  I'll have to dig into the Panther books I have tonight to refresh my memory.  It seems that my memory remembers only two sets on each side. 

[ssDruid]

I think you are right.  But after looking at the book "Panther" by Bruce Culver and Uwe Feist, they actually did exist.  There are several known photos of them in this book.  Also look at the AJ Press books on the Panther and the ones by Jentz and Doyle.  Only the late model G's had them.  But I have seen photos of A and D models that have them mounted also.  Something to do with the lack of raw materials (rubber) within the German industry during the war.  I have these books but no scanner to post the pictures from them.

[stodd]

The only way I could see the panther getting into the game would be if it was perked. But I still really want it.

[angelsandair]

I want it.... All I got to say.