Paramilitary police tactics misfire again

[Mini D]

The officer was shot through the front door? The guy is going to jail.

A similar situation occured in Oregon where cops broke into a motorcycle gang's "headquarters" with a no knock warrant. One of the gang shot the first officer to enter the home before police identified themselves and they put the guns down. No charges were pressed as it was viewed as self-defense. But... there was no "baracading" and no "shooting through doors" in that situation.

The guy is going to jail.

[Elfie]

I live where this happened and what that left wing rag said is pretty much spot on in this case.

"POP" there goes your bubble!!!!

Comment self deleted.

[Mini D]

BTW... no-knock warrants are necessary, but in very very limited situations where there is considerably more information available and at least some investigation has occured.

[Hornet33]

The officer was shot through the front door? The guy is going to jail.

A similar situation occured in Oregon where cops broke into a motorcycle gang's "headquarters" with a no knock warrant. One of the gang shot the first officer to enter the home before police identified themselves and they put the guns down. No charges were pressed as it was viewed as self-defense. But... there was no "baracading" and no "shooting through doors" in that situation.

The guy is going to jail.

Actually what happend was the officer had kicked in the lower door panel and was in the process of coming through it when the owner of the home fired. He didn't shoot through the door. He fired a target he could clearly see coming into his home unanounced, with no visible identification to mark him as a police officer.

[Elfie]

The officer was shot through the front door? The guy is going to jail.

From the article.

This past January that scenario played out at the Chesapeake, Virginia, home of 28-year-old Ryan Frederick, a slight man of little more than 100 pounds. According to interviews since the incident, Frederick says when he looked toward his front door, he saw an intruder trying to enter through one of the lower door panels. So Frederick fired his gun.

The cops say the deceased cop was shot through the door. Then again, the cops don't even know for sure how many of them were there. That too is in dispute.

Ebert also said Frederick should have known the intruders were police because there were a dozen or more officers at the scene. But some of Frederick's neighbors dispute this, too. One neighbor told me she saw only two officers immediately after the raid; she said the others showed up only after Shivers went down.

[Elfie]

                                   Internet cop expert who believes leftwing opinion rag cause its saying what he wants to hear : CHECK!

You have shown time and time again your blind loyalty to the LEO Brotherhood. Instead of giving you credibility as a LEO or former LEO, (like Maverick and others have) it actually discredits your opinion.

I'd bet the farm that you are one of those officers that never *rats out* another officer no matter how wrong they were.

[Elfie]

CI's are valuable to an investigation, but they are for the most part untrustworthy lairs and anything they say must be confirmed.

What an informant had to say led to the DEA being in my home (they had a warrant) to look for an individual. Took them less than 5 minutes to serve their warrant, yet they wouldn't leave for 55 minutes and even then I had picked up the phone and was dialing the number for the county sheriff's office to have them removed before they would leave. I've related this story before, so I won't go into more details again.

Funny thing is, the color of our home didn't match what the informant told them.

[Bodhi]

much as I respect the police and feel for the job they have to do...

They really are responsible at this point to refuse to break down doors and enter in the middle of the night.. they need to say "no mas" to a lot of this.   "just following orders".. no matter how good a guy the cop is may not be the best defense at some point.   

Why do they break in during the wee hours of the morning anyway?  the only people who sleep at those hours are law abiding citizens.. if you wanted to catch crooks napping it would be at 1000 or noon.... could it be that they don't want citizens to see what they are doing?

lazs

thats well said Lazs.

You try and break my door down with out identifying your self as law enforcement, I can guarantee I am going to be shooting at you.

[Elfie]

BTW... no-knock warrants are necessary, but in very very limited situations where there is considerably more information available and at least some investigation has occured.

There was a time when I would have agreed with this. At this point in time I have to disagree simply because to many people have died in these types of raids that shouldn't have.

[Airhead]

Gee guys, I do stand corrected- death to the pigs and all that, right? After all, every cop out there is a power mad abuser of his authority, so this guy got exactly what he deserved! Why, how DARE he show up for his shift, put on his Kevlar and go serve a warrant on a suspected drug dealer! After all, it's the individual cops who decide if it's a no knock warrant or not, right?

Like I said- I do stand corrected. Any time a cop gets killed in the line of duty we need to start a thred rejoicing in the fact there is one less cop out there who might violate our rights. Sheeesus, man- some of you guys are a real piece of...work. I can see now it's going to actually take an effort on my part to keep from violating my parolee status in the face of - I don't know what you'd call it- so much convoluted logic, insinsitivity and ignorance.

I was watching the Early Show and they were showing a picture of J-Lo's new twin babies- one boy, one girl- and the commentaor on The Early Show asked if the twins were identical or not. It's not even eight AM yet, and between the dumbest question ever asked on The Early Show and the giddiness and downright rejoicing  here over the death of a cop I can tell this is going to be one of those days.

 

[Chairboy]

Airhead:  Are you going on record then as arguing that "following orders" is an acceptable defense?  This would seem to suggest that you don't hold the judgement skills of the individual officers in very high regard.  There's also historical caselaw that would seem to refute the usefulness of that assertion, pretty strongly.

[Airhead]

There will be more of these incidents as time goes by. The 4th should mean something.

et tu, Brutus?

So now the 4th amendment gives us the right to shoot through our front door, huh?

 My nephew is a cop, and around New Year's he shot and killed a perp who leveled a sawed off shotgun at him in a similar situation- he was answering a domestic disturbance call. I know that probably saddens some of you, that a cop didn't get killed, but personally I kinda like my nephew, and I'm glad he didn't get shot, and I'm glad he was able to go home to his wife and three kids after his shift.

I'm out of this thread- I'll let you guys celebrate the death of a cop without my imput. And I won't even call you names like idiots, or morons...frankly, I don't think that's necessary.

[Airhead]

Airhead:  Are you going on record then as arguing that "following orders" is an acceptable defense? 

No Chairboy- You went on record as saying the cop got what he deserved, I went on record as saying any time we lose a cop in the line of duty, under any circumstances, it's a tragedy.

So let's leave it at that, huh?

EDIT: Actually Chairboy you didn't say that- I stand corrected. I'd discuss the merits of no-knock warrants but I'd imagine there's situations where they are deemed absolutely necessary...I don't know how that would work if individual police officers decided what parts of law enforcement they would, or would not, participate in.

[Elfie]

So now the 4th amendment gives us the right to shoot through our front door, huh?

Whether or not he shot through the door is in dispute.

[Toad]

et tu, Brutus?

So now the 4th amendment gives us the right to shoot through our front door, huh?

 

First of all, I'm not celebrating the death of anyone here.

The 4th gives you this:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

So far, there are differing stories. One says the officer was coming through the lower panel of the door which the police had broken. The other story says he was outside the door. I think I'll wait until there's a confirmed version of what happened before I judge the right/wrong of this particular incident.

That said though, I try to put myself in the shooters place. I have a CCW. I have alert dogs. I am not a lawbreaker. If, in the dead of night, my dogs alerted, someone broke down my house door without warning or shouts of "police!", if that someone was crawling through said broken door with a weapon in their hands, I would most certainly have been looking down the barrel of a 1911 at them. If they then made a move that I considered a threat to my life, I would shoot.

What I have said here is that we need a serious judicial review of no-knock warrant issuance and procedures in serving.

Air, it's not like these warrants haven't targeted the completely wrong people with tragic results. This is another tragic result. I think it is time to review the whole idea and try to come up with some better safeguards.

If you think that is celebrating this officer's death, then the problem lies in your court, not mine.