Paramilitary police tactics misfire again

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With red eyes.

And bobbed tails so that they can not get caught in doors.

[Mini D]

There seems to be too many "he got what he deserved" comments. The police officer did not deserve to be killed for attempting an arrest. He was not out to kill the suspect, he was out to arrest him with a warrant. Laws were being upheld and everything was legitimate as far as he was concerned.

What put him in that position is debatable. What drove the suspect to open fire through a door (with the bottom panel kicked out) is debatable. What caused the suspect to barracade himself in his home afterwards is debatable. Celebrating the death of a police officer as if they are the gustappo and it was deserved is not. It smells of pre-conceived bigotry and kills any rational debate on the subject.

[lazs2]

You can make an arrest without turning it into "kill or be killed" situation.

I agree that it is best that no one gets killed.. It is also better tho if the person who caused the escalation gets killed instead of the person who was just sleeping in his own home.

It is not better by much.. a tiny sliver but.. still better.

I do not condone no knock except in the most extreme cases and with only the most extreme proof.

I find it odd that those who would weep over a convicted killer going to the gas chamber without the most rigorous checking of facts would also think it fine to bust down a mans door to his home in the middle of the night, guns drawn, and turn the home into the OK corral...  all on what is often flimsy at best reason and at worst..  false.. or even the wrong address.

lazs

[Toad]

There's way too many unknowns still out there to form any sort of opinion in this case. I think it will have to go to trial before anyone will even begin to have an idea of what actually occurred.

I still remain convinced we need a serious judicial review of no-knock warrants and raids at the SC level.

[Airhead]

There seems to be too many "he got what he deserved" comments. The police officer did not deserve to be killed for attempting an arrest. He was not out to kill the suspect, he was out to arrest him with a warrant. Laws were being upheld and everything was legitimate as far as he was concerned.

What put him in that position is debatable. What drove the suspect to open fire through a door (with the bottom panel kicked out) is debatable. What caused the suspect to barracade himself in his home afterwards is debatable. Celebrating the death of a police officer as if they are the gustappo and it was deserved is not. It smells of pre-conceived bigotry and kills any rational debate on the subject.

Thank you MiniD. That was also my opinion but you said it better...guys saying "good for him for shooting the cop" and "he got what he deserved" do show the anti cop bias that is so prevelant here.  

[Airhead]

I find it odd that those who would weep over a convicted killer going to the gas chamber without the most rigorous checking of facts would also think it fine to bust down a mans door to his home in the middle of the night, guns drawn, and turn the home into the OK corral...  all on what is often flimsy at best reason and at worst..  false.. or even the wrong address.

lazs

lazs, I find it odd so many here were actually gleeful a cop had been killed...and I doubt the intention of the no-knock warrant was to start an OK Corral-type gun battle.

But...whatever, since everybody here seems to be a gunfighter who would have done the same thing (I wonder if anyone here has actually shot anyone?) we can only hope the police never try to serve a warrant on any of you...you're all just too dangerous.

 

[Elfie]

lazs, I find it odd so many here were actually gleeful a cop had been killed...and I doubt the intention of the no-knock warrant was to start an OK Corral-type gun battle.

It's a tragedy that the officer was killed. It would have been a tragedy if the civilian would have been killed.

Infos from a link I posted on page 3 of this thread:

19 non violent offenders killed.
38 innocent civilians killed.
23 Police officers killed or wounded.
110 raids on people who were completely innocent.

All these casualties occurred during no knock raids. The no knock raid lends itself to the Ok Corral type of gun battle. The raids are done at night when most folks are sleeping. The door is broken down/kicked in etc, and police officers storm into the residence many times w/o announcing they are police.

[john9001]

Celebrating the death of a police officer as if they are the gustappo and it was deserved is not. It smells of pre-conceived bigotry and kills any rational debate on the subject.

the Gestapo were just police during their job, protecting their country, protecting germany, following orders. How would you deal with saboteurs blowing up your trains, killing your troops?

your condem the Gestapo but praise american police that break down doors in the middle of the night, i smell bigotry alright.

[Mini D]

If you take a shower, you might wash some of the stench of bigotry off. Either that or stand with the fan blowing away from you.

Excuse the getapo, condemn the police. I think that ranks right in there with the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

[Suave]

This story is so absurd that it could've been concieved by writers of The Onion.

Are police departments creating special sections of stupid cops to combat the type of stupid criminals like the ones shown on "World's Dumbest Criminals" ?

A hostage situation is the only scenario that would merrit any type of surprise tactical entry.

Let me write here the obvious explanation of why it was such a stupid, stupid thing for the police to do. The police are escalating a quiet situation into a life-and-death armed confrontation. Putting everybody at the scene in danger. The POLICE are doing this, we expect this from criminals, not police.

But it gets better. All this was over an aleged marijuana plant, true marijuana is the cause of much evil that plagues modern man. And that's why we are at war with these leafy evil doers. But it turns out that the plant, while we can't be completely sure where it's sympathies lie, was a noncombatant.

[Elfie]

Let me write here the obvious explanation of why it was such a stupid, stupid thing for the police to do. The police are escalating a quiet situation into a life-and-death armed confrontation. Putting everybody at the scene in danger. The POLICE are doing this, we expect this from criminals, not police.

Spot on!

[Elfie]

If you take a shower, you might wash some of the stench of bigotry off. Either that or stand with the fan blowing away from you.

Excuse the getapo, condemn the police. I think that ranks right in there with the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

I think you are misreading the intent of the post.

[Mini D]

I thought that too elfie... so I read it again and again. What continued to catch my attention was: How would you deal with saboteurs blowing up your trains, killing your troops?

That's excusing behavior, justifying it. I know it seems rather difficult to believe that someone actually did that, but it did happen. If he'd said "the gestappo were just doing their jobs the same way the police are" I couldn't have made the leap. But alas, he didn't.

And suave... seems a hostage situation would be one of the worst situations for that. Maybe a multiple hostage situation where you accept x percentage is going to be lost (the recent scene with highschool girls being held hostage), but not in a situation where you're concern is the life of the hostage. Seems the no-knock should be reserved for situations where an armed individual who is strongly suspected of being the type that would open fire if not taken by suprise would be. Seems to me this situation was not the case (see my "more investagation" comments earlier).

None of that dismisses from the fact that your assumptions on the intelligence of the police officers (involved with this situation) after reading an article.

I'm not defending the police actions in this situation, but I'm not attacking the officers involved either. Some of you seem incapable of seeing what the difference is.

[Gunthr]

One thing that bothers me about the title of this thread... it seems to imply that paramilitary police tactics are always or often wrong.  It simply isn't true. 

This situation seems to have occurred in a small town where so little happens that more supervision of the officers is needed... except the supervisors don't have much more experience than the line officers.

It was a tragedy.  I would not extrapolate this incident to judge modern law enforcement.