An Argument Against the Death Penalty

[AKIron]

Heinous crimes such as committed by this guy deserve a severe penalty. Iran overdid it. A typical public hanging would have sufficed imo.

[midnight Target]

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   I ask this because just such an execution actually happened last Sunday.

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My "this smells fishy-o-meter" went off so I checked. This is sorta true if you mean last Sunday in 2005.

On March 16, 2005, in front of a crowd of about 5,000, his shirt was removed and he was handcuffed to an iron post, where he received his lashings from different judicial officials. He fell to the ground more than once during the punishment, but did not cry out. A relative of one of the victims managed to get by security and stab Bijeh. A blue nylon rope was then put around his neck and he was hoisted about 10 meters in the air by a crane until he died. He was hanged in Pakdasht, Iran, the town near the desert area where the killings occurred.

[Yeager]

No to public executions.  Such a thing would turn into a farce overnight.  Televised maybe......Pay to view sure, with proceeds going to the victims and survivors.

Hangings, beheadings, puncturing, shooting are also of no use to me.  Simple euthanasia would suffice.  Dead as soon as the juice hits the veins, just like our infirm and diseased pets.  I dont support capitol punishment as a form of vengence or retribution.  I support it as a means of a society defending itself from those very few individuals who are so broken that they cannot be salvaged and are a lethal threat to all as long as they are alive.  Those types need to be destroyed quickly, quietly, without prejuduce and with dignity.  Read them their last rites......and send them on their way to eternity.

[DREDIOCK]

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We have had some heated discussions here regarding the death penalty in the past, and some have argued that executing the worst offenders in public would be a very good thing to do.   But tell me, do you honestly believe that would be desirable?   I ask this because just such an execution actually happened last Sunday.

Iran executed a man who was convicted of sexually raping and murdering 16 young boys over a long period of time.  He was sentenced to 100 lashes for the rapes.  The judge also gave him 16 separate death sentences.  Because the court imposed multiple death sentences, it was deemed appropriate by public officials for him to die slowly.   So instead of a typical quick hanging, a mother of one of the murdered boys was allowed to tie a noose around his neck, and he was then slowly lifted up by a construction crane, causing him to slowly strangle to death.

But he first had the 100 lashes applied.  Multiple public officials had to be used to administer the beating, as they became too exhausted from giving him so many blows.   While he was being beaten, an overflow crowd of over 5,000 people from the small town where the murders took place watched and cheered wildly.   Dozens of people in the crowd also threw rocks at him, during the beating.   One relative of one of the young boys even managed to slip through the security.   He stabbed the murderer once in the back with a knife, while he was still handcuffed to the post he was being beaten at.   The relative was seized and taken into custody, so the execution could then proceed.   But the police released him afterwards, with no charges filed against him.

While one can argue that justice was done here, is this really civilized behavior??   Would we really want to act like the Islamic extremists do in Iran??  It seems to me that we would lose something as a society and a culture if we did.

The name of the condemned man was "Mohammed Bijeh".   Don't Google his name unless you have a strong stomach.   There were a number of Iranian photojournalists present at the hanging.

Interestingly, the accomplice that helped Bijeh actually kidnap the boys, only got a sentence of 100 lashes and 15 years in prison.   He did not actually participate in the rapes or murders themselves.  So he consequently was not charged with those crimes, even though he facilitated them by helping to seize the boys.

I believe that in a lot of Western countries he probably would have been charged with murder too.   Although I surely don't claim to be any legal expert.

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Not only do I support it. but I wouldnt be opposed to this type of justice being used here in such circumstances as well.
Allowing the mother to participate.. Bravo!

Is it civilized behaviour?
We as a species are no more civilized now then we were 2000 years ago.
We are merely more tecnologically advanced.

The only difference between the human animal now, and  2000 years ago.
Is the types of projectiles we throw at each other.

[DrDea]

 There some incredibly evil people in the world and sometimes you just have to thin the herd.If theres glaring no doubt about it proof,then put them down.

[SIG220]

That turd in Iran got no less than he deserved.  But what happened there has no parallels to the Death penalty here except that in the end, the guy was dead.  We should set a standard and do it consistently...put 'em down quick and move on.

But what is a reasonable standard?

Right now, all executions in the USA are currently on hold, as the US Supreme Court will soon be hearing an appeal that claims that even using lethal injection is cruel and unusual
punishment.

How does one kill someone, without being cruel to them to some extent??


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[SIG220]

no one called it animal abuse if you killed a rat

Actually, a man here in Oregon a few years ago was charged with animal cruelty for killing a rat in his backyard.

However, the judge hearing the case fortunately threw the charges out, and the homeowner was never convicted of anything.


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[SIG220]

My "this smells fishy-o-meter" went off so I checked. This is sorta true if you mean last Sunday in 2005.

Man, you are right.   I just happened upon a web page that had some info, and did not notice any year being mentioned.

This indeed did happen two years ago last Sunday.

Sorry for being so unobservant regarding the date.  The facts that I reported of what happened do appear to be consistent with all reports I've seen ( other than having the year wrong ).


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[Tac]

Slave labor is the solution.

Instead of death penalty, make 'em work. They dont work, they dont eat. Simple as that. The bleeding humanists can cry all they want but they'll change their tune the moment one of these people kills their kid. Ho boy do opinions change then dont they?


is the person innocent? Slavery is 100% reversible and hey, can make millions in compensation lawsuits. Consider 100 million lawsuit for 10 years slave labor thats 10 mill a year. How many people can say they make that? Not many.

Deterrent? Perhaps not. There's never a deterrent against murderers and psychos. However, spending tax money on building them a hotel, restaurant, exercise facilities,an entertainment room, medical services and provide them with security services 24/7 and getting a measly amount of money from the inmates (making license plates? sure thats a profitable venture) is a very bad policy IMO.

I say put 'em to work in construction of gov. projects. Roads, farmlands, etc.

[Airhead]

Sig220, this is a great subject to take the anti death penalty position on, because logic is on your side...it's also a great subject for trolling because the pro death penalty people know they're right, they just don't know why.

If it were me, and I were to debate the death penalty (and troll the thread), I would point out that anywhere between 200 to 340 prisoners condemned to death have had their convictions overturned thanks to DNA evidence...one could logically assume, since DNA is a relitavely new science, that there's a good possibility we executed innocent men before DNA testing, so throw out this quote-

"Perhaps the bleakest fact of all is that the death penalty is imposed not only in a freakish and discriminatory manner, but also in some cases upon defendants who are actually innocent."
-Justice William J. Brennan, Jr., 1994

This, of course, will get the pro death penalty crowd aroused- and one of them, not knowing the facts, will state they are pro capital punishment because they don't want to feed and clothe a prisoner forever...so you point out that, due to the appeals process, it costs more money to execute someone than it does to warehouse them forever.

A rebuttal from a death penalty advocate, of course, will be that we need less appeals then...(as has actually been done bt the Bush admin., BTW)...Your response will be that with less appeals, we will execute even more innocents...and put a rolls-eyes thingie or a (doh) at the end of your response...I call that the "chum," and it should get a like response from your opponents.

Then, no matter what is said in rebuttal, you wonder aloud if the people in favor of the death penalty feel that way because we execute a disportionate amount of minorities...it's important to ask this rhetorically, but if done correctly you should start getting some angrier responses from the pro crowd...so, once the pro crowd is sufficiently chummed and in a feeding frenzy, you drop your bait-

"Anyone who supports the Death Penalty is no better than those Iranians who tortured that poor man to death." The fact that "poor man" tortured and killed children will have the pro crowd frothing at the mouth, wanting to give YOU 100 lashes and hang YOU from a crane...

So now you sit back, pour yourself a drink and watch the show. Your initial arguments should have attracted allies to your cause, so let them carry the fight- it's only a matter of time before someone alerts Skuzzy to the thread and he comes in with a lock and swinging his ban stick, and the last thing you want is to have Skuzzy reading your posts...but since he rarely investigates problem threads more than two pages back you'll be OK...it's your friends who support you and the enemies who oppose you who'll get in trouble, not you.

If done well you'll have made your point plus trolled effectively, all in the same thread- and, if someone who was on your side got sucked into the debate to the point they got banned, that's a troll orgasm.

Of course I don't troll..not here, anyway...the fish in this stream have seen every kind of bait there is, so no matter how artfully you present it they're still pretty savvy, and the local game warden, Skuzzy, doesn't allow fishing in this stream- And likewise I don't debate the death penalty. I do believe that people 100 years from now will think we're somewhat barbaric for having a death penalty, and I think it's wrong for a civilized society to execute people... but you'll never catch me at San Quentin on the eve of an execution holding a candle in memoriam of some thug who is being executed for maybe three of the dozen murders he committed...

But if I did troll, and I did have more than a casual intrest in the issue, that's how I'd play it.

 


 

[Gh0stFT]

and here is the whole death penalty club on earth showed (red color)
just for those who like to avoid it

[Holden McGroin]

I have always been against the death penalty for two reasons.

1. The courts may, and have made mistakes when convicting someone. You cant reverse a death penalty.

2. Killing someone is offering them a quick way out. Let them rot.

I've always thought that #1 reason was kind of shallow, (no offense) because the court can't give you back the 25 years of your life that you would spend in prison if wrongfully convicted either.

The court must be as sure as possible when convicting regardless of the penalty.

I am against the death penalty because if we are not proud enough to do it in public, then we should not be doing it. 

[DREDIOCK]

and here is the whole death penalty club on earth showed (red color)
just for those who like to avoid it

(Image removed from quote.)

Man look at all the weaklings in gray.

Heres a solution.

If your against the death penalty. Move to one of the gray countries,

As for me. I say torture em to death in public.
and let the families of the victims have forst crack at em

[lasersailor184]

I am against the death penalty because if we are not proud enough to do it in public, then we should not be doing it. 

Shouldn't the same apply to all penalties?

[Holden McGroin]

Shouldn't the same apply to all penalties?

How does one incarcerate someone in public?