Author Topic: The root of all man's modern problems  (Read 3798 times)

Offline 68ZooM

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Re: The root of all man's modern problems
« Reply #60 on: March 26, 2008, 01:53:23 PM »
The root of all modern mans problems is simple..... Mans greed of wealth and power is the root of evil,  we all want more money,  sense we live in a materialistic society now, Today people are judged by what trendy clothes and cars we own, as well as oversized homes people feel they need to have.

The war on drugs will never end, there is to much income for the Government to make thru rehab,fines and seizures of homes,cars and persosnal property
 
Like i said money is the root of evil
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Offline Getback

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Re: The root of all man's modern problems
« Reply #61 on: March 26, 2008, 01:58:32 PM »
The root of all modern mans problems is simple..... Mans greed of wealth and power is the root of evil,  we all want more money,  sense we live in a materialistic society now, Today people are judged by what trendy clothes and cars we own, as well as oversized homes people feel they need to have.

The war on drugs will never end, there is to much income for the Government to make thru rehab,fines and seizures of homes,cars and persosnal property
 
Like i said money is the root of evil

Actually, it is the "love" of money that is the root of all evil.

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Offline Nilsen

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Re: The root of all man's modern problems
« Reply #62 on: March 26, 2008, 02:00:39 PM »
Greed and religion is the root of all man's modern problems.

Weed is more of a solution than a problem  ;)

Offline 68ZooM

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Re: The root of all man's modern problems
« Reply #63 on: March 26, 2008, 02:04:22 PM »
Greed and religion is the root of all man's modern problems.

Weed is more of a solution than a problem  ;)


 Man don't get me started on religion.   :rolleyes:
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Offline Neubob

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Re: The root of all man's modern problems
« Reply #64 on: March 26, 2008, 02:11:55 PM »
Ah Personal attack! I must have hit the nail on the head. Didn't Poe and Hemingway die young. Hemmingway killed himself I believe. I tell ya I have worked Alcholics and drug users in a factory setting. My former inlaws were abusers and frankly I stand my ground. Myopic uh hehe, I think you're being obtuse.  :rofl

Let's go a little further here. Do you want to hire a drug addict or alcholic. Probably not. They could watch your store for you. Deal with your customers. Work on your costly complex equipment.

Hemingway committed suicide, and his suicide had nothing to do with his drinking. It was chronic pain from injuries suffered in a plane crash. He lived with it for years before doing himself in. I've met plenty of brilliant people in my life who were problem drinkers, and while their drinking may have affected their health, there is a very strong argument that their artistic ability would have suffered from imposed sobriety. I've also met plenty of sober abusive cavemen. Unfortunately I don't know enough factory workers, but if a little weed or alcohol can quell the hardship of working a hard job all day, I am all for it. 

Imposing your beliefs on people because you think that something is bad is itself oppressive. I'd rather give people the freedom to decide rather than make rules that turn them into subjects of the state. Freedom is freedom, it has its benefit, and has its price, and government should strive to make fewer regulations, rather than more of them, just as they should strive to make fewer criminals, rather than more of them.

As it stands, anybody who wants to get drunk or high can do so. Drunks and addicts are not this nations biggest problem. Stupid legislation, on the other hand, may well be.

If you're willing to simply illegalize freedoms that don't suit your personal tastes, you're advocating oppression. Either way, neither you nor the government will make these decisions for the populace. People will continue to behave in this manner. They will simply become criminal. Some will get caught, most will not. We'll all pay the price in the form of taxes.

You either work with human nature or you work against it. We've tried for decades to work against it because working with it opens too many pandora's boxes. It also leads to less government control. Insanity can be defined as repeating the same act over and over again, expecting the results to change. Given this truth, proposing the imposition of further control over drugs is at best myopic and idiotic.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 02:17:21 PM by Neubob »

Offline lazs2

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Re: The root of all man's modern problems
« Reply #65 on: March 26, 2008, 02:17:50 PM »
getting loaded doesn't solve anything.. the best it can hope for is to not cause too much trouble.. not cause too much harm.   

There are no good druggies or alcoholics.. just ones that aren't toooooo bad.

Hemmingway, Fitzgerald.. great writers and drunks..  the drinking didn't ruin their writing tooo badly I suppose but.. it sure ruined their lives and the lives of the people close to them.. even some who barely were around em.

Not everyone drinks or uses addictively tho...  Most control the vice as well as anything else in their life.

Bottom line...It is not my business what they get loaded on..  It is also not my job to support the losers.

lazs

Offline GtoRA2

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Re: The root of all man's modern problems
« Reply #66 on: March 26, 2008, 02:18:04 PM »
Did you ever meet a pothead, alcoholic, or compulsive gambler in real life that had any merit? I haven't.

If you watch cops, the usual suspects are drunk or on drugs. Hence their supreme stupidity.

Yeah, I see Majiuarna as catalyst for evil. You'd be blind to think otherwise.



The only true force for evil in this world is Man.  Everything else is just our excuses for being evil to each other.

That said, I work with pot heads all the time (the tech industry is filled with them), hell I know people who worked at apple and it was smoked on campus by the programmers.

Most pot heads you would never know talking to them. Hell you prolly know a bunch and have no idea, they just don't share it with you.

These are people making 100k or more a year and are not problem employees.

Granted I am not talking about adicts, I am talking about people who use it like booze and are in control of their lives.  They far outnumber the ones who let it get out of hand.
 :aok


I also would not want to be around them if they were working with dangerous equipment.     
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 02:20:32 PM by GtoRA2 »

Offline Jackal1

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Re: The root of all man's modern problems
« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2008, 08:34:52 AM »
I also would not want to be around them if they were working with dangerous equipment.     

Hehe.
Around 25 years ago I had a 60/40 partnership, with another guy,  of a roofing business for a side business at the time.
We bid on and won a contract for a very large apartment complex.
The head contractor, the framers, the trim crew, the masons, plumbers, electricians, dry wall crew, etc. were about as pot head as you could get.
About 7:00 to 7:30 A.M. there would be a huge crowd gathering in the center of the complex. Everyone getting geared up for the start of the day.
 A Cheech and Chong movie had nothing on this sight. :)
You would have thought that the Sioux nation was having a pow wow. The smoke sort of hovered in the air
like fog. :)
The entire job was accident free from start to finish. There was a bonus from the head contractor for this and also one for coming in ahead of contract schedule.
Great bunch of guys and some great craftsmen that took pride in doing their jobs right the first time around.
There was one danger on this job though. You wanted to be very careful if you were on the job at 10:00 A.M. or somewhere around 2:45 to 3:00 P.M.
That`s when the Roach coaches made their rounds for break snacks.
You could easily get trampled in a stampede around these times. ;)
« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 08:43:35 AM by Jackal1 »
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline lazs2

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Re: The root of all man's modern problems
« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2008, 08:44:36 AM »
neubob.. it has been my experience that people who self medicate because of "horrific back pain" or whatever.. only make things worse..  they are kidding themselves.. they would be better off getting a little exercise than trying to self medicate which only makes them weaker and less able to handle the pain.

jackal..  I also worked around loadies.. watched a pot head cut his thumb off.  some were able to handle it better than others.. none NONE had better motor skills while loaded on pot.

There have been numerous tests done using driving courses that show that pot heads do as badly or worse than drunks.

I did see drunks work in a semi effective way..  I also have seen creative people who have never got loaded on anything.

lazs

Offline Jackal1

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Re: The root of all man's modern problems
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2008, 08:50:57 AM »


jackal..  I also worked around loadies.. watched a pot head cut his thumb off.  some were able to handle it better than others.. none NONE had better motor skills while loaded on pot.


Agreed on that point.
I also have two acquaintances that lost limbs.
One lost his right hand in a two row cotton stripper.
One lost his left arm in a square bailer. He went back, done the exact same thing as the first time and lost his right leg to the knee.........on the same bailer.
Both were sober as a plank.
It`s the frame of mind and attitude I think.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Neubob

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Re: The root of all man's modern problems
« Reply #70 on: March 27, 2008, 08:56:43 AM »
Lazs, the point here isn't effectiveness, or even quality of life. Hemingway self-medicated on pain killers after his accident, in the end it's the pain that got him. Fitzgerald, some say, would not have written as he did were it not for alcohol. Thompson certainly would have written differently. No matter. I regret ever bringing it up, and only did so because somebody said they didn't know any drunks that weren't worthless. There are and there always will be.

The point should be freedom from government involvement. They give us booze and cigarettes, but they don't give us weed. They give us opiates, sometimes, but not others. They suck at controlling all of the above, and yet people who don't indulge at all pay just as much as those who do. The war on drugs has done nothing besides given a bunch of mustachioed overgrown schoolyard bullies the opportunity to feel important and collect paychecks for physically abusing suspects.

All the BS reasons to keep this or that illegal, be the 'cornerstone of society' nonsense, or 'jesus says so' chant, none of them justify the resources this nation is expending just to be able to say that we're trying to do something. The reality is that few users that I know would change their habits if pot were legal. Supply isn't a problem, and to most, neither is cost. It's all a question of the side effects.

I believe we agree on this issue.

Offline Mini D

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Re: The root of all man's modern problems
« Reply #71 on: March 27, 2008, 10:13:01 AM »
Making it illegal or legal will not change the tendancy of government to "crack down" on whatever is next in line. The government has to establish that it is out to protect you at all costs. This is what more than just Christians are demanding. Head down to the bay area and check out the nanny laws sometime... the actual insistance on them... right along with all the reasons why we shouldn't be nannying drug use. The irony is quite thick.

Lazs, I do not pretend to have the vast drug experience that you do, nor the exoposure to it. I do know that people who drink have the ability to not drink at work and function quite well. Most of the stoners I know do not. Every single one of them has either been fired or transfered from group to group until they eventually quit. I'm sure there are a few casual users in there that don't fall into this category, but I'd wager it's very few.

Health wise, I have no objections to the "marijuana is no worse than alchohol" argument. When it comes to society, I don't believe it is as harmless as people think (especially with people who are above the casual use stage). I've not seen a greater collection of misfits than from the stoner ranks. Hell, most of the alchoholics I know are also stoners.

The main problem that I see with marijuana being legal is availability and it's actual impact. The observations I have made in regards to stoners can be narrowed down to this: They don't mature while they are stoned. Other results vary by individual as far as making them more/less violent and impacts on other things, but the failure to mature is the one consistant thing I see. I don't see this with alchohol. If this is made widely available, it will become widely available to people I'd rather see maturing (high schoolers) than settling in a comfort zone of ignorance and spending their life there. I think legalization would swing that pendulum in the wrong direction at a time when we need increased focus... not decreased.

As for the "War on Drugs".. just acknowledge it will be "The war on <insert cause here>" no matter what you legalize or don't legalize. If you want to end the war on drugs, cut the funding and arm your populace.

Offline lazs2

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Re: The root of all man's modern problems
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2008, 11:24:41 AM »
sheesh.. I guess I don't agree with anyone here.

I think all drugs are bad.. they have very little use other than to get over the worst amount of pain in an injury and even then..  they prolong the amount of time it takes to heal.

I know that no person loaded on anything is better at his job than when he is not if it requires motor skills.   I think that saying a great writer who was a drunk means that only drunks can be great writers is total BS.

I don't like to be around loadies.. they do not connect.  they are on a different plain of reality and... even if you don't know they are loaded.. you know something is wrong.. you write it off to bad personality or just stupid but.. you know something is wrong..  just as soon avoid em.

But.. on the other side... It is none of my business if they ruin their lives.

I believe that I have used to excess every drug know to man 20 years ago.   they were all illegal.. I had vast quantities.   I could afford to give them away...  addictive people like myself were a finite number.. the vast majority would not accept even free drugs.

The workplace today is not mostly drug free because of the drug laws and enforcement... the "war on drugs" it is drug free because of the testing allowed... more testing... less drug use.

There is a finite number of addicts and people willing to look stupid and ruin their lives.  It matters not that the drugs are illegal or legal or expensive or free.

simple drug laws would work as well as what we have now... sell or give drugs to children... go to prison (teachers included)..

get caught on the job loaded.. get help or get fired.   

get caught harming someone because you were impaired.. double the sentence.

drug test all people who receive welfare of any type including unemployment.

other than that... kill yourselves and your families for all I care.

lazs

Offline Neubob

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Re: The root of all man's modern problems
« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2008, 11:50:41 AM »
Yeah, Lazs, I think you're taking what I said a couple steps too far.

I never said that only drunks can be great writers. Nothing near that.  I said that alcohol, for those select few that I mentioned, may have played a key role. They may have been great without it, but they would have been different.

My main point is freedom of choice. As you said, let them kill themselves, so I'll take that as agreement on that point.

Offline Jackal1

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Re: The root of all man's modern problems
« Reply #74 on: March 28, 2008, 02:30:09 PM »
Well......one thing has been proven. Stephen King sucks without his coke.  :rofl
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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