Barney Fife Works For US Air?

[Toad]

I will however concede that even an HK with a self-aware, living firing pin cannot fire an empty chamber.

I already did. The point, of course, is that TSA directs that the pistol have a round chambered.

Now can you admit that a HK USP40-LEM won't fire unless the trigger is pulled?

[rpm]

I will admit an HK USP40-LEM with no round in the chamber won't fire.

We don't know the condition of the weapon, the handling of the weapon or the circumstances surrounding the discharge. Tell me, was this weapon ever dropped? Was the safety in working order? Was the weapon holstered on his hip or in his flightkit? Were ther any loose items in his flightkit? WE DON'T KNOW.

I guess the NRA safety course I took was all a bunch of baloney. They said keep the chamber empty. But, what does a bunch of liberal gun haters like the NRA know about guns anyway.

Mav, (and maybe Toad will verify this) cockpit doors are now reinforced and locked during flight. Nobody is going to waltz into a cockpit without some warning to the occupants.

[Slamfire]

Now, are you also aware that a significant percentage of ND's occur when a round is being chambered? Probably the most common action that generates an unintended discharge. Think about that.

Very very very true - just about ever AD/ND (Accidental Discharge/Negligent Discharge) happens when the round is chambered (the actual action), OR someone is messing around + happens to have finger on the trigger of a "cocked & unlocked" firearm.

My guess was the guilty crew member was "playing pocket pool" with his pistol when it happened.

[Toad]

I will admit an HK USP40-LEM with no round in the chamber won't fire.

Well, if you want to pretend that means anything go ahead.

We don't know the condition of the weapon, the handling of the weapon or the circumstances surrounding the discharge.

Well, we know two things for certain: 1) the pistol had a round in the chamber and 2) the HK USP40-LEM is designed to release the firing pin ONLY when the trigger is pulled and that it has an excellent safety record.

Tell me, was this weapon ever dropped?

Don't know, but it wouldn't matter. The internal safeties disconnect the firing pin so that it cannot contact the primer without the trigger being pulled.

Was the safety in working order?

There are actually mutlitple internal safties that prevent the firing pin from striking the primer unless the trigger is pulled. Simultaneous failures are highly unlikely.

Was the weapon holstered on his hip or in his flightkit?

You can rest assured that if it was properly holstered in either one of those conditions the gun would not have fired.. The HK went off because a minimum 7.5 pound trigger pull was overcome by pressure against the trigger.
 

Were ther any loose items in his flightkit? WE DON'T KNOW.

But we know the trigger was pulled by someone or something. It didn't pull by itself. 

They said keep the chamber empty. But, what does a bunch of liberal gun haters like the NRA know about guns anyway.

Boy, beats me what they know. I took a CCH course and they said only a fool carries an empty gun and expects to do anything with it.

Mav, (and maybe Toad will verify this) cockpit doors are now reinforced and locked during flight. Nobody is going to waltz into a cockpit without some warning to the occupants.

Some cockpit doors are pretty weak. The earlier B-737's spring to mind. The MD-88's aren't too robust either. In general, the larger the plane the larger and stronger the cockpit door. We were always of the opinion that a big man would crash right through a 737-200 door by the very nature of the door. Any of the aircraft that have big "blowout panels" in their cockpit doors to equalize pressure in case of rapid decompression are not in the strong cockpit door category.

[rpm]

Nobody ever said carry an empty weapon. Keep the chamber empty until ready to use.

The weapon may be designed not to fire, but once again, we don't know what happened. Maybe he was showing off his quickdraw, maybe the weapon took a shock from aircraft moving, maybe the round just cooked off. I'm sure we will find out.

[Arlo]

Boy, beats me what they know. I took a CCH course and they said only a fool carries an empty gun and expects to do anything with it.

What CCH course teaches it's students to not know the difference between an empty gun and a chambered round? Or was that just a poor paraphrase?

[DrDea]

 Flaps? Yup. Do we have clearance Clarence? Roger Roger.Hows my vector Victor? Gear down?Yup. Well looks like a good round trip.Round?let me check.Snick BLAM           oops.

[SIG220]

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Why was there a round in the chamber?

They were very lucky the bullet did'nt riccochet and hit someone or something vital. To quote The Hunt For Red October "most things in here don't react well to bullets."

Perhaps because it can take a couple of seconds to chamber a round???   And by then you would be dead.   All police officers carry their guns with a round in the chamber too.

This just goes to show that handguns are not as big a danger on airliners as many have attempted to make them out to be.  For nothing bad happened in this incident.

The news reported that the pilot had been issued a Heckler & Koch .40-caliber semiautomatic pistol.   If it was their popular USP model, those handguns have safeties on them, and that gives one a false sense of security.  Their model 2000 has no manual safety, but does have one installed in the trigger, which is the proper location for a handgun safety.

Both of my SIG pistols have absolutely no safety of any kind on them to worry about.   While both my Glock 17 and Smith and Wesson M&P 40c both have safeties built into their triggers.   So I never have to worry about having to take a safety off when I use any of my handguns.

The only really effective gun safety is the human brain.


_____________________________ __

[AWMac]

RPM has a secret love affair with Sherrif Taylor and Deputy Fife is blocking paradise.

Sad, but nuff said.

Mac

[rpm]

Perhaps because it can take a couple of seconds to chamber a round???   And by then you would be dead.   All police officers carry their guns with a round in the chamber too.

A couple seconds? You using black powder ball & cap?

Again, basic firearm safety. Keep the chamber empty until ready to use. Don't argue with me, argue with the NRA.

[Holden McGroin]

A couple seconds? You using black powder ball & cap?

It takes a couple seconds.  This is the proof often overlooked when people try to poo-poo the obvious Dealey Plaza conspiracy.  No way LH Oswald could have squeezed off three shots in such little time.

[rpm]

It takes a couple seconds.  This is the proof often overlooked when people try to poo-poo the obvious Dealey Plaza conspiracy.  No way LH Oswald could have squeezed off three shots in such little time.

[Holden McGroin]

Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered.

[Golfer]

It's not SSI as far as I know but are you friggin kidding me about not having a round chambered?  So you're supposed to be fending off the attacker with one hand, while drawing with the other and using your third hand cycle the slide to chamber a round?  Yeah right.  If you've been through the training RPM then you can comment.  We're not on a gun range practicing in this instance, we're in a law enforcement role and if it were me you can be damn sure that I'm having a round chambered for more than a few reasons.

Most likely an issue with a new holster model in this case...

As Toad said the H&K USP.40 LEM has no external safety but a redone trigger pull making it different from the regular USP.40 Compact.  The only way this gun is going off is if you pull the trigger so at some point it seems most likely that this guy pulled the trigger probably while adjusting the holster.  There are a few ways to wear the gun but if you're carrying, you're supposed to be wearing when the cockpit door is closed.  My own carry gun for the street is a Kimber Ultra Carry.  It's bigger round, it's better size and feel and John Browning designed it make it a better weapon IMHO.

[Toad]

I wonder if the NRA has informed the various police agencies that they should carry with an empty chamber?

Cripes Ammighty, you'd think all the LEO's and FFDO's were armed with Colt Peacemakers!