Hurricane IIC...FM Odd?

[Furball]

Aparently squire and furball, U didn't read the initial post.  We not turning with a hurri @ 180mph, we trying to dive away and maybe turn @ 400+.  Whats happening is a hurri IIC is able to dive with a hog, k4, p47 etcc.. and maintain all that E almost as long as a the Heavy american plans and such.  Even if u turn real hard in a hog @ 425+, the hurri can do same and stay with ya if not catch ya without breaking nothing.  We talking about a 6-7000lb plane holding its E like it wa a 10-12,000lb plane.  It also zoom climbs like the heavy weights.  Keep in mind, this is only the Hurri IIC.  The IID can't even compare to it at all.

I did actually and was just giving a general reply.

In my experience, the Hurri bleeds E drastically, although i am rarely ever high enough in it to get E.  Besides, my opinions are probably out of date now.

I have never read any reports of compression in the Hurricane, so whether it got it bad in RL or not i do not know.  If you have ever seen a Hawker Hurricane up close, it is a real strongly built aircraft, the thickness of the wing on the Hawker Typhoon and Hurricane is really surprising.  I found that it doesn't get much speed in a dive, and really does not hold E very well at all - a6m's are lighter and seem to hold E much better.

[save]

Looking at specs for hurricane 2 compared with its contemporary adversaries like 109e/f you can tell it is too fast compared with the real lite (tm)
Beeing able to keep up with much better the much better specs of 109f/g models is just not historical.

Coming in its gun arc should be bad news, as it is in AH

Should'nt AH's FM's  try to be as close as possible to real life ? - well presonally I think so.

[uptown]

I have broken the wings off in a turning high speed dive. Several times. But as for out diving heavier jugs,hogs,ponys,etc...the Hurricane can't do it with equal E. But if the hurricane is above you,which i asume is the case or you wouldn't be diving away, then he does have a E advantage.
Just the other night, a K4 dove on me, him with 2k alt advantage, and stuck to me like glue until he got the kill. I should have been able to out turn him...right? But couldn't, and I sure couldn't out dive him.

[Saxman]

Slamfire,

AKDogg is probably one of the LAST people you should be "schooling" ( ) on the capabilities of the F4U.

CO-Energy with most planes, the Corsair is a very weak ride - certainly no match (all things "E" being equal) with something like a Spitfire, A6M2 or Hurricane (among others).

Bullchit.

[uptown]

Simplification: for those of you that do not understand the above.... try sucking less 

o dear, did noobfire really say that

[hubsonfire]

I flew the Hurri a little bit, and I must have done something wrong, because I never found it to perform like a Tempest, making turns with ease in excess of 400mph or zoomclimbing with the best. Anyone have some films of these incidents?

[humble]

I've probably got a couple dozen floating around since i film everything. My "question" isnt about total E state initially its about retention over time and bleed under short duration high G loading. If we look at the A-20 specifically its about the best "zoom" plane in the game given an equal start. Now even at a significant disadvantage its somewhat remarkable. I can get the A-20 to roughly 410 MPH (TAS) before she breaks up (sometimes more) and have extended literally a full sector vs 109K's 190D's La-7's FuU's etc that were initially higher before reversing. The A-20 will retain that high speed OTD for a remarkably long time.

Now all those planes have a higher sustained top speed and better climb so things attrite rapidly at the end. Against "lesser" planes like the F6F, Spit 16 etc the A-20 has a bit more margin in the zoom to potentially convert to a zoom climb without the con being able to easily match up. Two planes really stand out however, the nikki and hurricane can actually gain significantly on an A-20 which I find very suprising given the difference in mass and relatively moderate sustained climb differential. From my perspective the hurricane in particular acts like a plane with more weight and a higher top speed/sustained climb then it actually has.

[AKDogg]

Any lowly fighter can catch the finest ENY 5 plane if it has an E advantage from the "get go".  Co-alt does not equal co-speed, or co-E; and yes, many (if not most) veterans do not understand this concept in the heat of battle... All they think is ENY ("Oh, he has the crappier plane, so this one is MINE!....   WTF ??!!  I got killed!  Something is PORKED !!!!!!!!").

If you film all engagements and study the merging speeds, and altitude (and you understand the relationship) all such illusions of "porked flight models" will dissipate.

Yes, a heavier plane retains E better - but a lighter one accelerates faster.  Short term: lighter plane has the advantage - long term, heavier one does (simplification, but a good rule of thumb when the watermelon hits the fan).  How long ?  2-3 minutes.  In the heat of battle, that is an eternity.

BTW: on the Corsair - yes it retains energy extremely well, but, contrary to what you might think, it rebuilds lost energy VERY slowly.  A knowledgeable pilot in even the crappiest of all rides will exploit this.  CO-Energy with most planes, the Corsair is a very weak ride - certainly no match (all things "E" being equal) with something like a Spitfire, A6M2 or Hurricane (among others).  Yes a superior pilot might make a difference, but then... we start to change the subject (of comparison) from planes to pilots.

Do not cry and whine when you lose - study and get better.

Slamfire

LOL, guess U don't know me very well.  I can show u what I can do in a hog vers any plane u want.  I not talking about bnz either.  I will turn fight any spit, zeke or hurri with it and usually win.  I sure alot here will agree with me on this. 

As far as the merges, when a hurri turns 180 and catches u when u are alrdy doing 360+, there something wrong, espescially when he was coalt with u 5.5k out at 10k.  He didn't dive down or did I.  This is how well a hurri can hold E.  I did have alot of these films till I lost my HD a few months ago.  I guess I gonna have to pick on some hurri's more and film.

[uptown]

AKDogg, I want a hurri vs hog duel with you. Not saying I think I can win, but I may get lucky a few times



Both planes with 50% fuel

[Saxman]

Heh. I think the most I've ever gotten against Dogg is managed to get his engine smoking in his -4 with a lucky snapshot from an FM-2, but was never able to get another shot and ended up augering at some point.

But then again, the AKs seem to spend most of their time as Rooks, so I've never actually gotten many chances to go up AGAINST him.

[Ack-Ack]

Should'nt AH's FM's  try to be as close as possible to real life ? - well presonally I think so.

Show proof the FMs are wrong.


ack-ack

[AKDogg]

But then again, the AKs seem to spend most of their time as Rooks, so I've never actually gotten many chances to go up AGAINST him.

We rotate every tour for almost a year now.

[Hoffman]

I've noticed a couple interesting things about the A6 and Hurri whenever I come up against them in my K4.  Usually to my horror or my sudden joy at having done much practice flying home with half a wing.

The K4 can zoom tremendously thanks to its light frame and powerful engine.  The P-47 and Hog both climb like bricks, but once their engine reall starts working they can really go. However, the A6 and Hurri however don't have that advantage but can still both zoom very effectively.  I think this is because the A6 and Hurri both have extremely good lift capabilities due to their wings and weight.
The A6 is practically a kite with guns, it just needs a little gust of wind and it can take off without moving forward.(I've managed to get an A6 to take off of a Carrier with no runway by turning it into a realistic Wind, as in not 30+MPH)  The hurri has very very thick wings compared to most fighters, this cause greater seperation of air as it moves and therefore more lift.

So it may just be that the A6 and Hurri can zoom and turn as well as they can simply because of what I personally call the "kite effect".  They're light enough and have enough lift that they don't 'need' the power of the uber-rides, which makes them popular.
Whereas planes like the K4, P-47, and Hog get their abilities mostly through the "brick effect".   As in, you throw enough power behind it and you can get a brick to outturn a dog chasing its tail.

Just my simple logic and $0.02.

[Slamfire]

It also zoom climbs like the heavy weights.  Keep in mind, this is only the Hurri IIC.  The IID can't even compare to it at all.

I tried this simple test tonight to compare the Hurricane IIC and the F4U-4

- I took both planes up to 15k with with 50% fuel
- I chopped throttle until they were right on the edge of stalling
- I dove straight down, full throttle with wep to 5k
- and finally zoom climbed straight back up in the vertical with a very gentle back pressure on the the stick

The Hurricane IIC climbed back up to 10k before stalling out.
The F4U-4 climbed all the way back up to 15k before stalling out (essentially lost no E)

Basically that's a 1 mile difference.

Conclusion: the Hurricane IIC can in no way compete with the F4U-4 when it comes to zoom climbs and E retention.

[Noir]

I hate N1K's...wrong topic sorry.