Author Topic: humm big oil not making enough profit.. so they cut production  (Read 789 times)

Offline Eagler

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Re: humm big oil not making enough profit.. so they cut production
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2008, 01:23:54 PM »
It is easier to blame Bush

NO Blood for Oil!!

LOL
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Offline SkyRock

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Re: humm big oil not making enough profit.. so they cut production
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2008, 01:27:26 PM »
I think that if your inventory is 9% higher than it was last year, cutting production to reduce that inventory might just be reasonable.  Producing more than is required means you either have to grow your inventory or just pour it out on the ground.
or, drop prices to suck up the inventory!  :aok

Triton28 - "...his stats suggest he has a healthy combination of suck and sissy!"

Offline Charon

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Re: humm big oil not making enough profit.. so they cut production
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2008, 01:40:07 PM »
Beutel really got my mind around the concept of the teeter totter.

I had believed and stated here a number of times that "1973 was the rule and 1990s were the exception to the rule." I am shifting to something similar but different in some important ways. 1973 is the rule (actually the late 1960s) in that it really marked the tipping point for us as a domestic supplier of an important percentage of our own demand. From that point on we became more of a passenger than a driver in the energy universe and more at the whim of forces like OPEC and the various commodity exchanges. But, as Beutel pointed out there is no real rule or exception to the rule where price is concerned.

In a free market, particularly a global market, a commodity like oil faces a lot of whims. Some of that is artificial, such as OPEC artificially restricting supplies in 1973. Some of that is natural like an increase in honest demand from countries like China. Some of that is both artificial and natural, like the market overreacting to political unrest, etc. the way traders do. Fear and following the herd, etc.

But, long term, gluts create fundamental reactions that have longer term implications as do oil shocks on the opposite side.  For example, all sorts of new production is coming on line now to meet demand, driven by profits and investment capital. At the same time, high prices are impacting demand, and setting in motion changes that will begin to be felt a few years down the road. We will see more economical vehicles, behavior patterns that have been ingrained will start to change, and if we do enter a world wide depression then demand will certainly fall.

As demand starts to fall, there will be a natural overlap in surplus leading to a glut. But the changes already underway will continue for some time so the glut will continue. OPEC countries will try to stay unified and control production to limit supply and increase profits, but there are too many players and cheating can be common. Gradually investment in new production will taper off as the money goes elsewhere. Underperforming wells will be shut down. Research into exploring deep ocean resources in the Gulf will taper off (a lot of potential oil but a lot of expensive R&D to eventually get it). Tar sands and biofuels will become very bad investments and, therefore, will die off. The same market fears that push oil to $110 (beyond the impact of the weak dollar influence) will push oil to an artifically low $10 or $20 say. Oil is bad for your prortfolio --run away, run away!

Then, eventually, demand starts to ramp back up and we find ourselves suddenly (relatively speaking) in another oil shock -- to use the term loosely. Perhaps there is a major disruption of some sort to set the cycle in full motion. The difference between a glut and a shock is quite small. The effort to balance supply to demand generally gets things pretty close. Even as world-wide demand increases world wide production works to match that demand -- but not much more. So relatively small shifts can have a major impact at the pump for long periods of time. The next small shift the other way produces the same result. Equally unfortunate (of fortunate in the good times), such small shifts can have a major impact on our national and world economy.

The best thing we could do to add stability to the process would be to keep driving the hybrids and econoboxes once the prices plummet. But, we won’t do that.

As a side note, we are transferring tremendous wealth to the Middle East, but given the sorry state of our oil reserves (even with the drop in the bucket that is ANWR) we don't have much choice at $10 bbl or $100 a bbl.

Charon
« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 01:44:15 PM by Charon »

Offline BaDkaRmA158Th

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Re: humm big oil not making enough profit.. so they cut production
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2008, 02:40:19 PM »
Who cares, everything stays the same.
you make more, they tax more.

Minimum wage go's up,rent gas .ect all go's up.
Still just as broke as in the 80's, the number just get bigger and bigger.


get use to it middle class.
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BaDfaRmA

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Offline GtoRA2

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Re: humm big oil not making enough profit.. so they cut production
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2008, 02:44:30 PM »
The best thing we could do to add stability to the process would be to keep driving the hybrids and econoboxes once the prices plummet. But, we won’t do that.

And there is the reason I went out and bought a 4 banger hyundai that gets 34 MPG and the jeep now only gets used for weekend fun stuff.

Offline Slamfire

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Re: humm big oil not making enough profit.. so they cut production
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2008, 05:01:04 PM »
Well.... all I can say is thank god our Virtual Aircraft Fuel is free  :D
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Offline Ripsnort

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Re: humm big oil not making enough profit.. so they cut production
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2008, 05:03:33 PM »
And there is the reason I went out and bought a 4 banger hyundai that gets 34 MPG and the jeep now only gets used for weekend fun stuff.

Just curious, whats the Jeep get for gas mileage?

I'm pulling 19 mpg overall with my FJ. I only drive it to work 3 days a week (4x10 schedule, 1 day virtual) so 1 tank a week doesn't break me.

Offline lasersailor184

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Re: humm big oil not making enough profit.. so they cut production
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2008, 05:05:17 PM »
I get 19-20, however I can get around 25-26 if I draft on the highways.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Ripsnort

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Re: humm big oil not making enough profit.. so they cut production
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2008, 05:23:36 PM »
I get 19-20, however I can get around 25-26 if I draft on the highways.
In a jeep?

I gave up drafting when a semi truck lost rubber while I was on a motorcycle. I don't draft anymore after staining my shorts.

Offline GtoRA2

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Re: humm big oil not making enough profit.. so they cut production
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2008, 05:58:37 PM »
Just curious, whats the Jeep get for gas mileage?

I'm pulling 19 mpg overall with my FJ. I only drive it to work 3 days a week (4x10 schedule, 1 day virtual) so 1 tank a week doesn't break me.


Well if you go the speed limit, the best I can do is about 17.

If I do 70 to 75, I get 12 or less.

Window sticker said 16/19 but thats a dream.


Offline DieAz

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Re: humm big oil not making enough profit.. so they cut production
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2008, 08:15:25 PM »


Walk into a parking lot in 1883 and what you would see would be dramatically different from the same lot in 1997 but perhaps not to what you will see in 2010.

Charon

hehehe I know what you meant but I just gotta ask.

wouldn't a parking lot in 1883 be a livery stable?

wouldn't mind having a team of mules, they eat like goats, cheap enough to feed. and they are smart critters, sometimes smarter than the owner. (maybe more so than I.)

sometimes after I write a bit, the proofreading and correction of errors causes me to just delete it all and forget it.

anyway very nice posts you have written.

Offline crockett

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Re: humm big oil not making enough profit.. so they cut production
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2008, 10:01:40 PM »
Beutel really got my mind around the concept of the teeter totter.

I had believed and stated here a number of times that "1973 was the rule and 1990s were the exception to the rule." I am shifting to something similar but different in some important ways. 1973 is the rule (actually the late 1960s) in that it really marked the tipping point for us as a domestic supplier of an important percentage of our own demand. From that point on we became more of a passenger than a driver in the energy universe and more at the whim of forces like OPEC and the various commodity exchanges. But, as Beutel pointed out there is no real rule or exception to the rule where price is concerned.

In a free market, particularly a global market, a commodity like oil faces a lot of whims. Some of that is artificial, such as OPEC artificially restricting supplies in 1973. Some of that is natural like an increase in honest demand from countries like China. Some of that is both artificial and natural, like the market overreacting to political unrest, etc. the way traders do. Fear and following the herd, etc.

But, long term, gluts create fundamental reactions that have longer term implications as do oil shocks on the opposite side.  For example, all sorts of new production is coming on line now to meet demand, driven by profits and investment capital. At the same time, high prices are impacting demand, and setting in motion changes that will begin to be felt a few years down the road. We will see more economical vehicles, behavior patterns that have been ingrained will start to change, and if we do enter a world wide depression then demand will certainly fall.

As demand starts to fall, there will be a natural overlap in surplus leading to a glut. But the changes already underway will continue for some time so the glut will continue. OPEC countries will try to stay unified and control production to limit supply and increase profits, but there are too many players and cheating can be common. Gradually investment in new production will taper off as the money goes elsewhere. Underperforming wells will be shut down. Research into exploring deep ocean resources in the Gulf will taper off (a lot of potential oil but a lot of expensive R&D to eventually get it). Tar sands and biofuels will become very bad investments and, therefore, will die off. The same market fears that push oil to $110 (beyond the impact of the weak dollar influence) will push oil to an artifically low $10 or $20 say. Oil is bad for your prortfolio --run away, run away!

Then, eventually, demand starts to ramp back up and we find ourselves suddenly (relatively speaking) in another oil shock -- to use the term loosely. Perhaps there is a major disruption of some sort to set the cycle in full motion. The difference between a glut and a shock is quite small. The effort to balance supply to demand generally gets things pretty close. Even as world-wide demand increases world wide production works to match that demand -- but not much more. So relatively small shifts can have a major impact at the pump for long periods of time. The next small shift the other way produces the same result. Equally unfortunate (of fortunate in the good times), such small shifts can have a major impact on our national and world economy.

The best thing we could do to add stability to the process would be to keep driving the hybrids and econoboxes once the prices plummet. But, we won’t do that.

As a side note, we are transferring tremendous wealth to the Middle East, but given the sorry state of our oil reserves (even with the drop in the bucket that is ANWR) we don't have much choice at $10 bbl or $100 a bbl.

Charon

The problem is, the titter totter seems to keep going only one way and not the other. The sharp rise in fuel prices over the last 2 years isn't due to a lack of oil or even where is comes from. Sure oil is at an all time high now so it is affecting the prices, but most of the jump came from lack of refined product.

So the gas prices jumped sky high people had to conserve. No big surprise that we didn't use as much fuel this year as we did the year before. Hell it was in the $2/gal range a year ago now it's over $3.5/gal. So no big surprise people start buying more economical cars or just use less in general.

Now now they have a little surplus and maybe just maybe the prices will come down to a reasonable level, but instead they cut production again. That will almost all but guarantee $5/gal gas this summer.

"strafing"

Offline lasersailor184

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Re: humm big oil not making enough profit.. so they cut production
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2008, 10:25:33 PM »
In a jeep?

I gave up drafting when a semi truck lost rubber while I was on a motorcycle. I don't draft anymore after staining my shorts.

Yup.

But there's something odd with my engine.  There's a specific spot and higher where if I hit it on the revs, my gas consumption nearly doubles.  But if I'm a hair below it, it's fine.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Airhead

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Re: humm big oil not making enough profit.. so they cut production
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2008, 12:21:04 AM »
What generates an immediate price increase on gasoline when crude prices go up is the replacement cost for that gasoline. Why would an oil company sell gasoline for less than they can buy the crude to make it, should there be a price spike?

Anyways it doesn't matter how much gasoline costs- our freeways will still be clogged by commuters at one person per car.

Offline Neubob

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Re: humm big oil not making enough profit.. so they cut production
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2008, 01:05:03 AM »
Anyways it doesn't matter how much gasoline costs- our freeways will still be clogged by commuters at one person per car.

Thank god the Mexicans are helping us to fix that ratio.