Author Topic: Things need to change  (Read 3228 times)

Offline 10thmd

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Things need to change
« on: March 31, 2008, 09:52:46 PM »
First why do the Brtis get CV's??? They never brought anything close to France for fear the Bismark would sink an entire fleet.
Second since we are dealing with a limited plane set why is the CV hardness at 2.5? Right now the allies have 3 cv's parked off of Frances coast beating the tar out of us and we can't do a thing about it.
Third where are our shore batterys? I've been to Normandy and the busted bunkers are still there to this day. :mad:

For an arena thats supposed to be about historical matches you guys sure are giving this one to the Allies on a silver platter.
This needs to change its not even close to what the BOB was.

Anything I missed Axis players feel free to add on.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Things need to change
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2008, 10:22:26 PM »
Historical perspective? Trust me, I'm the choir. But it's not the staff that needs to be appealed to in this. I guess there's two ways to go. Appeal to the players dedicated to making BoB into D-Day 1941. Or accept alternate reality and suspend disbelief and dive in. Sorry. That seems to be the most practical routes. The second has a better chance of success than the first - even though it probably less appealing (eh, it's reliant on ourselves .... that's always been a better percentage of success than reliance on a group).

I think getting staff to force air to air on the BoB map would result in a mass exit of 90% of the Axis players and half the Allied players which would be even worse than Admiral Bulldog turning BoB into the Normandy invasion.

Offline Larry

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Re: Things need to change
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2008, 10:31:21 PM »
Axis had C110 at the start of the war. You guys took a number of Vbases in the south of england with it untill it was sailed off the coast of dover and sunk by our CV. You guys were launching Ju88s, Ju87s, Me109, and Me110s from it. Thats why we can roll our planes from our CVs.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 10:33:15 PM by Larry »
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Offline Jaxxon

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Re: Things need to change
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2008, 10:36:37 PM »
Blame the CVs getting close to France on Larry  :noid  :t Do you guys have CVs? I honestly haven't checked but you must have a fleet of some sort? As far as I know the Brits had operational carriers in 1940 or earlier, sink them. Don't take for granted historical tactics will be used, there was no declaration of "Peace in our time" this time around. The Germans didn't build shore batteries en mass till late in the war when the threat invasion was imminent. What the Axis needs are Subs, that's what kept the British fleet close to home waters not the Bismark which they actively sought.
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Offline 10thmd

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Re: Things need to change
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2008, 12:17:19 AM »
Still even if we had one Cv that counts for nothing. I just would like a little balance here or you will see 100% of dedicaded Axis players leave.
 You try flying through the Ack of 3 Cv's it is barely possible. 
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Offline Larry

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Re: Things need to change
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2008, 12:26:26 AM »
Still even if we had one Cv that counts for nothing. I just would like a little balance here or you will see 100% of dedicaded Axis players leave.
 You try flying through the Ack of 3 Cv's it is barely possible. 

Thats why I did it. When you make a megafleet the guys bombing it almost never live long enough to get thier bombs off. I did the same thing with a few of the axis fleets last war. I watched for almost al hour as jabo after jabo came in. They didnt stand a chance and only got two eggs off. You guys took I think three or four bases with that fleet. If you would have taken a airfield or two next to each other you could have a foothold on enland. It wouldnt be hard to take P106 then sink the fleets then you would have a CV.
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: Things need to change
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2008, 01:02:40 AM »
Someone slipping you Rufies again, TK?

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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Things need to change
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2008, 02:30:53 AM »
I agree that this "BoB" setup is a wash.  We had better BoB setups nearly a decade ago in warbirds.  No cv's of death, and no gv's.

Historical perspective? Trust me, I'm the choir. But it's not the staff that needs to be appealed to in this.

Arlo, I fail to see why we should not appeal to the AvA staff.  They create the arena, they can fix it.  It was their choice to create a frankenstein BoB setup, now it's their job to kill the monster.

Axis had C110 at the start of the war. You guys took a number of Vbases in the south of england with it untill it was sailed off the coast of dover and sunk by our CV. You guys were launching Ju88s, Ju87s, Me109, and Me110s from it. Thats why we can roll our planes from our CVs.

That the axis could launch from the now-annihilated cv does not justify anything.  That was wrong, and so is the allies doing it.  There were no carrier aircraft used in the BoB.  Therefore, they should not be in this AvA arena.

Do you guys have CVs? I honestly haven't checked but you must have a fleet of some sort? As far as I know the Brits had operational carriers in 1940 or earlier, sink them. Don't take for granted historical tactics will be used, there was no declaration of "Peace in our time" this time around. The Germans didn't build shore batteries en mass till late in the war when the threat invasion was imminent. What the Axis needs are Subs, that's what kept the British fleet close to home waters not the Bismark which they actively sought.

No, the axis does not have a CV at this time.  Nothing. :eek:  See my point above about carriers in the BoB.

-------------------------------------

Let's face it.  If the British had had 3 dominant carrier groups patrolling the English channel in 1940, then the Battle of Britain would have never happened.  The strategic scenario just isn't there.  It's just the job of whoever sets up a historically based AvA arena to recreate the event as faithfully as possible; here cv's have been included just because they exist in the main arena. :rolleyes:
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Things need to change
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2008, 03:29:18 AM »
It's just the job of whoever sets up a historically based AvA arena to recreate the event as faithfully as possible; here cv's have been included just because they exist in the main arena. :rolleyes:

Presumptive reasoning. How do you know that was the motivation? What do you know about AHII setups versus Warbirds? Were you event or arena staff there? Have you been here? How many of the AvA staff do you even know on the basis of not only playing the game alongside them but interacting with them in forums and during events here?

Now that I've bombarded you with questions and you may be feeling like I'm picking on you for critisizing the AvA staff, let me assure you that I don't think the current setup is perfect, either. But let me also go so far as sharing that I've yet to see one that ever was ... even the ones I helped set up here in the past. I know you may not be asking for perfection ... but ... every single player that's played this arena ... long-term or short-term ... whether they give it a pass of fail ... has had something (or things) they thought needed addressing ... by the staff. And, trust me, for everything that needed addressing there was at least one other vocal player who either thought something else beared more pressing attention or disagreed with the first players's assessment altogether. Your and my general opinion on what physical arena elements seem broken may not be far apart. But your and my impression on not only who to blame but how much blame exists doesn't. I know that in the past, disabling the ability to capture by any method has reduced the playerbase as much as uncontrolled capture has. There's a balance.

There's only so much you can so with settings and dictation when it comes to fostering a supportive and dedicated playerbase for the AvA. It's always been the red-headed stepchild of AHII. It's a player mindset that'll create more problems than anything. I bet if you look closely enough at your experiences in Warbirds you'll see the same. Does the community put it's weight behind immersion ... historical immersion, especially? If so, it's the community, as a whole, that deserves credit and reaps the benefit. If not, it's the community, as a whole, that deserves blame and suffers the consequence. If the players don't care about it, whether through ignorance ("How come most of the fighters aren't enabled in the hanger?! Why isn't there a side for the Knights?! I'm a Knight?!) or ambivalence ("So what if the Allies weren't focused on liberating France during the Battle of Britain? The setup gave me the tools and this is what I like!") or a mixture ... it'll be the players that look for ways to play the game outside of historical perspective, no matter what the settings, that set the tone of the AvA. And for those who, ironically, seem the rare exception to the current AvA community mindset ... that of being actually into settings that provide greater historical immersion ... until they can organize, inspire and motivate the rest, they're stuck with what the rest of the community either actively does or blissfully puts up with . Look at TK's post. He helped facilitate and organize invasions to prove a point. To prove a point! But even he couldn't have done so if the players who followed along didn't want to and didn't think it was more fun than flying Spits and Hurris in their historical role of defending their island against inbound Luftwaffe bomber formations and fighter escort (which ... BTW ... ain't happening if the Axis players aren't there to do it or don't care to do it).

The atmosphere of the AvA has always been player driven, no matter how hands on the AvA staff decide to be. And it's not like any of the AvA staff are making a living being AvA staffers. They're players just like you ... many of whom have lives that don't allow baby-sitting the arena as much as the AvA community (which isn't banding together to help historical immersion all that much right now) sometimes demands. Quite honestly, if you think you can do a better job of it (and please try not to take offense .. you may well can) ... then write up your resume' of Warbirds experience and experiences, throw your hat in the ring and run with it. But I'm telling you, if you don't start with the community first (even as a dedicated non-staff player) and resort to making a habit of complaining about how it's all the staff's fault, whether you're selected to serve or not you may have to reap your own sowage in a negative way. That way being the continued sufferage of setups that don't meet your uncompromising standards because the community you failed to inspire as a peer doesn't appreciate a heavy hand and has four main arenas to choose from where they perceive there isn't as heavy a one.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2008, 03:48:47 AM by Arlo »

Offline Arlo

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Re: Things need to change
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2008, 03:38:43 AM »
argh .... quote isn't edit.  :D

Offline Odee

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Re: Things need to change
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2008, 03:39:51 AM »
Still even if we had one Cv that counts for nothing. I just would like a little balance here or you will see 100% of dedicaded Axis players leave.
 You try flying through the Ack of 3 Cv's it is barely possible. 
Call the waghmbulance.  You guys had your CV parked off V81 the first day.  It's the reason you could take V81.  It was sunk by the Brits, and now you whine because the Allies have CV's?

Get real, you're just po'd because you can't loiter in GB and get your 8 kills landed.
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Offline Bruv119

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Re: Things need to change
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2008, 03:41:35 AM »
Myself and some of my guys swung by last night for a few rounds.

The numbers were pretty off to begin with for the first half hour so.  Went up to about 8 vs 8 then the Axis guys starting leaving when they were getting their tulips wooped!!

Standing toe to toe with some Brits in Spits they werent gonna last long!

Some really good immersive fights though.  Gian, thrila, bubi definately worth the entrance fee  ;)

Say what you like about strategy or gameplay, having bases that close promotes some good close combat and I enjoyed every second.  Its not about the winning or losing,  just the taking part.  I've never bought that line but in this case its totally true.



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Offline Bruv119

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Re: Things need to change
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2008, 03:53:37 AM »
after reading the rest of this thread.

You have the ju88 and ju87stuka no?   

Now 2 guys in each of those planes should be able to sink a cv no problems.  If your moaning that 3 CV's are parked off shore, get in a damned plane and kill them.  Unless you have no skills in that department.

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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Things need to change
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2008, 04:21:13 AM »
Arlo, that's a thoughtful response.  I can't possibly respond to all of that right now, maybe tomorrow.

I will say this:
Quote
It's just the job of whoever sets up a historically based AvA arena to recreate the event as faithfully as possible

This is not presumptive reasoning, but merely reasoning from the premise that the arena is a historical setup.  If you want to deny that the BoB AvA arena is supposed to be historical then we're on entirely different pages. :D

I have plenty of respect for the volunteer job of AvA staff and don't want to claim that "it's all their fault," just as I don't blame HTC for the stupid stuff I see people do in the MA.
 :salute
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Offline 1redrum

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Re: Things need to change
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2008, 06:37:44 AM »
edited  ;for Oldman's sake

but i do have a craving for cheese
« Last Edit: April 01, 2008, 07:17:46 AM by 1redrum »
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