P-51s

[5PointOh]

Its not a terribly big deal, but why is the radiator shudder not modeled.  I always figured it should be considering the some of the planes have the leading edge slats modeled.  I'm sure the thrust effect has been modeled.  The other item is why only 6 rockets on the 51 when it was capable of holding 10.  Just  my morning random thoughts.

[Karnak]

You meant "shutter", yes?

As to the rockets, 10 was postwar.

Here si a challenge for you, find a wartime document or phot of a P-51 hanging both six rockets and two 1,000lb bombs.  Or even two 500lbs.

[Mister Fork]

According to my copy of  The Great Book of Fighters (Green and Swanborough 2001, ISBN: 0760311943), the P-51D armament is listed with:

• 6 × 0.50 in machine guns
• 10 × 5 in rockets
• 2 hardpoints for up to 2,000 lb

It's based on service data from WWII for the D-variant. Not post war. But what do I know?

[5PointOh]

I am sorry I did mean shutter. 

This is from the P-51Ds operation manual. 

I counted ten. 

[Mister Fork]

Wow - confirmed. 10 points.  I wonder why our P-51D has six?

[Guppy35]

You won't find any photos of wartime 51s with 10 rockets because they didn't carry ten rockets.  Also understand I don't think you'll find any photos of ETO Mustangs carrying those types of rockets at all.  As far as I can determine the Iwo 51s carried 6 and and 2 DTs.  I can post photos of Korean war 51s carrying 6 and 2 500 pounders.

Note that in the photo from the manual, that to have 10 rocket rails there is no wing pylon.  This would mean no DTs or bombs carried if you took 10 rockets.

I've never seen a photo of a combat Mustang without the pylons and 10 rockets.

Standard practice, very late in the summer of 45 and in Korea was 6 rocket rails and 2 pylons.

[Pyro]

The deal with the extra rockets is that the bomb/drop tank pylons have to be removed to accommodate it.  I imagine that's why you never see pictures of that configuration.

[Mister Fork]

Makes sense Pyro.  Since the P-51 was customizable to the n'th degree, if you want 6 rockets AND bombs, you'd remove #7, 8, 9, 10, 22, 23, 24, and 25 rocket hard points (see image above).

I dozens of picutres of the P-51 - some showing the 3 rocket hard points next to the larger one for bombs/fuel tanks.  Let me see if I can find one.

[Mister Fork]

Here is the RCAF P-51D with the rocket + fuel tank hard points.


Another


This one has 3 on each wing (from the 348th) allowing 8 rockets. [edited]


It seems that the rocket armed P-51D only saw limited use during WWII and that the primary configuration of the P-51 was indeed the main hardpoints for bombs/fuel tanks.  Interesting.

Courtsey of Swiss Mustangs

[5PointOh]

The deal with the extra rockets is that the bomb/drop tank pylons have to be removed to accommodate it.  I imagine that's why you never see pictures of that configuration.

Thank you sir for the insight, it was just something I was wondering about on my way to work.  So how about the shutter...

[Guppy35]

This one has 4 on each wing (from the 348th) allowing 8 rockets.
(Image removed from quote.)

You are actually seeing 3 rocket rails and the wing hard point.  Not 4 rocket rails in that photo.

[Pyro]

Oops, didn't read Guppy's post before I repeated part of it. 

On the third picture, I concur that there are only 3 rockets and a bomb pylon there.

[Mister Fork]

Your right (eye's gettin old).  It's only 3 rocket rails on each wing.  I thought it was four.  (Had to lean in and squint.) 

[Stoney]

Well, the question is one of capability versus actual use.  Personally, if you can't arm a P-51D with 10 rockets, you shouldn't be able to arm it with 1,000lb bombs either.  Or, if you can arm 1,000 lb bombs, we should be able to carry 10 rockets.  P-51D POH (dated during WWII) shows the capability of 10 rockets.  So, the capability existed during the war, even if they didn't use it.

I'd up Karnak's challenge to show a wartime P-51D in a combat zone carrying 1,000 lb bombs.  To paraphrase the POH--those bombs created limit loads on the pylons and disrupted flight characteristics so severely that they weren't recommended for use.  So, does anyone have photos of the Pony hanging crowd pleasers?  I'd love to be proven wrong if you do so I can quit being such a grumpy pants about this issue.

[Pyro]

Well, the question is one of capability versus actual use. 

No, that's actually a different question.  I didn't mean to imply otherwise.  I never answered the original question in this thread but the reason there isn't a 10 rocket option on the P-51 is that I couldn't do it without running into limitations and having to resort to cheap tricks.  Whether it should or shouldn't be allowed that option is a question I never got to.  At some point, it will come back up and we can worry about it then.