Hopefully not another Waco

[Jackal1]

Anyway, Waco was a whacko incident. The people inside never heard of a white flag I guess....

A white flag doesn`t do anyone much good when the people on the other side of the firing line refuses to honor it.
There was a white flag put out of a window early in the siege. The person placing the flag was fired upon .
The people inside were lied to repeatedly in attempts to get them outside.....then were fired upon.
When it first became obvious the Davidians were being investigated by the ATF, David invited them to come search the premises and weapons for legality at any time. He was told "That`s not how we want to do it" and hung up on.
The local Sheriff had been there many times and had an open invitation.
Up until the time of the fiasco, the Davidians were known as The Branch Davidians..........not a cult.
That came from the smear campaign in an attempt to cover the ATF/FBI rears.
You do realize here that anything that goes against the grain of the government that a mass media operation is implemented intended to ridicule and smear the target of the time don`t you? It`s public knowledge now. Not only used in these circumstances but others as well......even something as silly as  reported UFO sightings of many numbers.
You bring up the children. The warrant wasn`t for the children. If you have charges against someone , you file those charges and make arrest accordingly.........but it that is not what the warrant was for. BTW........the warrant was NOT a no knock warrant.
According to our laws if you are being attacked and fired upon you have a right to defend yourself.
Do some more research and I think you will find many, many things on the ATF/Gov side is not only questionable , but has been proven totally bogus.
One of the most disgraceful things to ever happen in our country.

[midnight Target]

SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 1993:
At about 9:30 a.m. agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms attempt to execute arrest and search warrants against David KORESH and the Branch Davidian compound. Gunfire erupts. Four ATF agents are killed and 16 are wounded. An undetermined number of Davidians are killed and injured.

Innocent gunfire innocently kills 4 ATF agents, accidentally I'm sure.

[lazs2]

So MT.. how did koresh get wounded and the other guy killed?  they were unarmed at the door.

the only ATF agents killed were the no knock ninjas trying to sneak into a second story window with loaded machineguns.     They were shot with perfectly legal bolt and semi auto guns by owners of the building.

All this over nothing..  all of it could have been prevented if the government had acted like adults instead of pretend ninjas.

lazs

[Jackal1]

Innocent gunfire innocently kills 4 ATF agents, accidentally I'm sure.

When private property is illegally attacked and comes under fire, property owners have a right to defend themselves and their property in this country.
Give it time though and maybe more people who think the attack was Okie dokie and falls for the pure form of BS
put forth and fed to the media can get together and turn this country into something similar to Nazi rule.
That way there would be no resources for any recourse or protection against such things. The minds of some would be put at ease. All choices would be made by the government for the people. The people wouldn`t have to be bothered with making decisions for themselves.
 I mean ,after all ,the government knows better than the population what is best for them.............right?

[Pooh21]

Weird how the 16 year old girl who supposedly called in the abuse, has not been found yet and more then likely does not exist.

[texasmom]

I was thinking that if they've know about this place for 4 years then they would have had a better plan for the anticipated mother/child removal/storage system than they currently have.

I mean hell, they had enough time to plan the thing out. That's for sure.

[john9001]

cop "hey chief, i just got a anonymous 911 call"

chief "roll the tanks, it's showtime"

[lazs2]

You have to realize that there are a lot of government police agencies all vying for a bigger and bigger chunk of your tax burden..

They need to justify the money.   they need to justify a bigger force.. they need headlines and spectacular busts.

Has anyone seen any government alphabet soup police agency make any busts that justified their billion dollar budgets lately?   local cops do thousands of times more good.   even terrorists have been mostly busted by street cops.

But even cops are getting bad.. how do you justify a swat team for instance?  if you really only need it once a year or less?   If it never is even there till the thing is over anyway?

Seen a front page picture of a "hells angels" ATF bust... the guys arrested were all in their 50's.. the "guns" recovered in the 10 month stakeout and highly planned raid were a bunch of all surplus rifles that anyone here can buy at a sporting goods store for less than a c note and some target pistols and  cheap short shotguns.. even a couple of replica black powder guns from more than a century ago.

It always backfires on em but.. no one cares.   no one cares how bad a job they do or how little. they keep getting funded and they keep making costly and dangerous mistakes.

lazs

[midnight Target]

Yep, those local cops are all we need....

http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/20377

FBI arrests NHPD cops

[Angus]

So, it's gun culture...on both sides?

[Toad]

Starting to wonder about this whole thing. I'm no fan of LDS polygamists but why did they need Texas Wildlife officers, an APC and all if they've been watching these folks for months or years? Their intel is so bad that the only thing they find is a couple of hunting rifles yet they send in everybody but the dog catcher?

To top it off they still haven't found the girl that filed the complaint they said they acted upon?

Just exactly what is the basis for this whole thing then? A suspicion? Was there a grand jury action first?

Lots of facts missing but if Texas was stomping on the 4th Amendment, I hope there's a huge repercussion.

[Angus]

Well regarding the girl, - well I think it is established beyond belief that they were doing multi-wife games as well as being with very young ones.
And in situations like this, cults I mean, - it is often very hard to get things clear. Subjects are too afraid.

[Toad]

Ok so they were allegely wife-swapping and boffing underage girls.

I doubt swapping is prohibited in Texas but I don't know that; consenting adults and all that.

Underage is prohibited but you need to have some proof. So far they have not found the girl that complained. That would be a BIG problem in court if the state tries to convict someone I would think. It would be a BIG problem if the polys sue the state over this raid.

Or am I missing something?

Again, why all the guns? They've been watching these clowns for years and they didn't know all they had was a couple of hunting rifles? Due diligence? Intel?

Or do they just expect to be dealing with the Mahdi militia every time they knock on a door in the US and skip the intel part?

[midnight Target]

Haven't found THE girl.

Still plenty of statutory rape charges to go around though.

[Toad]

I admit I haven't watched enough news, so I may lack some information.

Are you saying they DO have underage plaintiffs claiming statutory rape? Or witnesses to uphold the charges?

Like I said, I haven't been following it all that closely.