Author Topic: Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law  (Read 2303 times)

Offline Napoleon II

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Re: Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law
« Reply #60 on: April 13, 2008, 03:09:06 PM »
See Rules #4, #5
« Last Edit: April 13, 2008, 04:36:22 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline lazs2

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Re: Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law
« Reply #61 on: April 13, 2008, 03:27:16 PM »
napolean.. you are not making sense.. of course the example of the cell phone is a valid one and does not stretch the point at all.. you stretched it when you tried to make turning them off in a building the same as having one in your  car.   

The employer does not have to provide parking.   ooops.. wait a minute.. in most cases he most certainly does.  You need to look at his building permit.  I doubt that they would have let him build without off street parking.

the law in question tho.. it covered employees even when parked on the street.   I would be fine with a law that asked employees to keep their firearms secure and locked in their car.  Or.. whatever the state they are in requires.. simple stuff really.

As for the crime rates..  You need to get your head out and go to the link I provided.. the countries you admire.. you are 2 to three times more likely to get burglarized in..  and when you do.. you are twice as likely to be home hiding, shivering under your bet with nothing but a cricket paddle for defense.. here.. it is rare to break into a mans home when it is occupied.. crooks fear guns in the hands of citizens.. study after study has shown that.   you are just as likely to be raped in your "safe" countries and more likely to be assaulted.

I know it goes against what you "feel" should be the facts but.. the facts are the facts.

I know that you would not want employers to have the right to search your car at any time now would you?

the NRA was right on this one.. the ACLU was shivering under the bed on this one.   There are some rights they don't want to protect.

Read the links.. think a little..  think it through.. and get back to me.

lazs

Offline Napoleon II

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Re: Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law
« Reply #62 on: April 13, 2008, 03:38:45 PM »
 you are just as likely to be raped in your "safe" countries and more likely to be assaulted.
No mate, you are completely wrong there.

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Read the links.. think a little..  think it through.. and get back to me.
Well post the links and I will.





Offline Maverick

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Re: Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2008, 04:30:44 PM »
Why is it starting to smell like yet another resurection of beetle? Getting real rank now.
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Offline Elfie

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Re: Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law
« Reply #64 on: April 13, 2008, 05:59:33 PM »
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Well post the links and I will.

Scroll up, he did. :)
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Offline LTARGlok

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Re: Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law
« Reply #65 on: April 13, 2008, 06:03:06 PM »
True, but criminals are going to know that there's a much higher chance of finding a gun inside a car, once the law is passed. It doesn't need a freaking sign.  :rolleyes:

As I have already pointed out, criminals just don't randomly break into cars.

Why would a criminal risk breaking a law and going to jail, without any indication that they are going to get any payoff??

Your argument makes no sense at all.   The criminal would have to break into so many cars in order to find a gun, that they would be caught much more quickly.

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« Last Edit: April 13, 2008, 06:14:36 PM by LTARGlok »

Offline LTARGlok

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Re: Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law
« Reply #66 on: April 13, 2008, 06:08:11 PM »
The difference, Lazs, is that to stay on my property, you must obey my rules.  If the employer owns the parking lot, he should be able to set the rules at his own discretion AND accept all the consequences of such.

Yes, but if the rules are unreasonable, that is another matter.

How else could such a rule be enforced, without violating a person's right to be protected from unreasonable searches and seizures??

For example, If they require you to be drug free, should they not then also have the right to search your home for drugs too??   At what point to you draw the line??

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Offline LTARGlok

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Re: Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law
« Reply #67 on: April 13, 2008, 06:09:57 PM »
Roundeye

We're not talking about at the side of the road or on the way home from work. We're talking about an employer's parking lot, or indeed any parking lot. And the owner of that lot is free to set the conditions upon which people use his property and park on his land, including banning the carriage of firearms in vehicles to be stored on his property.

Don't like it? Fine - park somewhere else. It really is that simple.

That is not at all practical with a great many employers.   So your position here is clearly untenable.

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« Last Edit: April 13, 2008, 06:12:54 PM by LTARGlok »

Offline FrodeMk3

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Re: Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law
« Reply #68 on: April 13, 2008, 06:32:35 PM »
Yes, but if the rules are unreasonable, that is another matter.

How else could such a rule be enforced, without violating a person's right to be protected from unreasonable searches and seizures??

For example, If they require you to be drug free, should they not then also have the right to search your home for drugs too??   At what point to you draw the line??

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When I worked in the oilfields, they would call us every once in a while to a meeting at the lease Admin. building after work. The admin building was an old school, and alot of the rooms' had only one door out. While we were in having some sort of safety seminar, they had security guards' searching cars' out in the parking lot with dogs, looking for some kind of narcotics.

This came to an abrupt end, when someone had to duck out of the class to do something. He saw someone going through his car. He came back into the room and told the rest of us about it. The guy running the class told us what it was-a drug search. We all went out, watched them finish, then left and went home.

We simply never went to another seminar, ever again(while I worked there.)

As I mentioned before, the employer had a hold-harmless agreement, and it extended to searches. When we went on the oil lease, we had signed a waiver automatically consenting to random searches. I had heard from a fellow worker, that the one guy who tried to win a case in court(They had found something in his car when searched) lost, because this waiver was the first thing given to the judge and jury.

The thing is, if employers' make random searches, with firearms' on the forbidden list, what will the court do? Even if it's law, what happens' if the employee's have to sign waivers' as a condition of employment? Will the law override any such signed document? Or will the Contract/Waiver prevail?

Kinda like,what comes first, the chicken, or the egg?

Offline LTARGlok

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Re: Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law
« Reply #69 on: April 13, 2008, 06:47:47 PM »
Even if it's law, what happens' if the employee's have to sign waivers' as a condition of employment? Will the law override any such signed document? Or will the Contract/Waiver prevail?


Invariably, I think that the gun owners will always lose in such scenarios.

A few years back there was a spate of rapes on the campus of the University of Oregon.   There were some female students who had concealed carry permits, and they asked the school administration if they could carry their guns while on campus.

However, the University refused to bend their rules at all, and warned all students that any of them caught on campus with a gun would immediately be expelled from the University.

Mind you, this was a case of even a state owned institution telling someone that they did not recognize the rights of the students under state law to carry a gun.   And the University prevailed, even though there is absolutely no law that forbids the carrying of guns on campus to people with concealed carry permits.

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Offline Tango

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Re: Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law
« Reply #70 on: April 13, 2008, 08:10:21 PM »
I remember a few years ago getting pulled over for speeding [late for work], the first thing I did was tell the deputy that I had a gun in my car. He asked me where it was and I told him. He had me get out and he took it out of my car. He simply called in the serial number and did a check on it. Few minutes later he gave me back the gun and my speeding ticket while telling me to slow it down. A law abiding citizen is not a threat to anyone.

We even have a "Shoot the carjacker " law, making it legal to shoot anyone attempting to take your car or hold you up. Right along with shooting anyone that breaks into your house. I've yet to hear of thieves breaking into cars just to look for and steal guns. Its far easier to buy them illegally.

http://www.buchanan.org/pa-97-0818.html
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Offline Napoleon II

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Re: Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law
« Reply #71 on: April 13, 2008, 10:42:19 PM »
As for the crime rates..  You need to get your head out and go to the link I provided.. the countries you admire.. you are 2 to three times more likely to get burglarized in..  and when you do.. you are twice as likely to be home hiding, shivering under your bet with nothing but a cricket paddle for defense.. here.. it is rare to break into a mans home when it is occupied.. crooks fear guns in the hands of citizens.. study after study has shown that.   you are just as likely to be raped in your "safe" countries and more likely to be assaulted.

I know it goes against what you "feel" should be the facts but.. the facts are the facts.

Well, the countries that you said I "admired" (I assume you mean the ones in my initial post) were Australia, Japan and Europe. In those countries, no-one carries a gun to go to work, nor indeed at any other time. And yet, when I turn on my TV in the mornings, I don't hear of any mass outcry by the folks over there to be allowed to carry guns. I don't open my newspaper and read case after case of people who have been raped/mugged/assaulted/murdered while driving to work. I'm not saying those countries are crime free, but someone has already said ^ (and it wasn't me) that America has a far higher number of gangbangers - in urban areas at least.

But even though folks in Australia/Japan/Europe go about their daily business, unarmed, and think nothing of it, there are many in the US, including quite a few in this thread, who are afraid even to make the daily commute unarmed for fear of something bad happening.
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You will see that for all types of violent crime except homicide.. of which about 20% of our population (by race) commits about 60%....that the english speaking countries including england and America have about the same number.
I went to the first page - assaults. I counted at least 18 European countries in that list whose proportion of assaults is less than half that of the US. Not sure what the first language of English has to do with it, as even in Ireland (English speaking) the number of assaults is less than one third of the US number.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2008, 10:59:40 PM by Napoleon II »

Offline Tango

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Re: Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law
« Reply #72 on: April 13, 2008, 11:15:03 PM »
I went to the first page - assaults. I counted at least 18 European countries in that list whose proportion of assaults is less than half that of the US. Not sure what the first language of English has to do with it, as even in Ireland (English speaking) the number of assaults is less than one third of the US number.

And I for one am glad I live in this country where I can and have the right to carry a gun to defend myself. I'm sure those that are assualted over there wish they had the right as well.
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Re: Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law
« Reply #73 on: April 13, 2008, 11:21:05 PM »
napoleon I think more people reside in the six counties that comprise south florida than do in all of the united kingdom.  to compare the numbers you would need to compare all of the EU

Offline Napoleon II

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Re: Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law
« Reply #74 on: April 14, 2008, 02:02:24 AM »
napoleon I think more people reside in the six counties that comprise south florida than do in all of the united kingdom.  to compare the numbers you would need to compare all of the EU
No, that's taken into account by Lazs's chart, which gives the number per 1000 people.