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Author Topic: Under God in pledge of allegiance.  (Read 2064 times)

Offline Holden McGroin

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Re: Under God in pledge of allegiance.
« Reply #75 on: April 10, 2008, 10:16:51 PM »
A little historical background.

There are three founding documents:

The Declaration of Independence, which lists our grievances, The Treaty of Paris, which establishes and recognizes our independent status among nations and establishes our original political boundaries, and the Constitution, which lists our rules of self governance.

The Declaration Begins,
Quote

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness
 

The Paris Treaty of 1793 begins,

Quote
In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity.

It having pleased the Divine Providence to dispose the hearts of the most serene and most potent Prince George the Third, by the grace of God, king of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, defender of the faith, duke of Brunswick and Lunebourg, arch- treasurer and prince elector of the Holy Roman Empire etc., and of the United States of America, to forget all past misunderstandings and differences that have unhappily interrupted the good correspondence and friendship which they mutually wish to restore, and to establish such a beneficial and satisfactory intercourse , between the two countries upon the ground of reciprocal advantages and mutual convenience as may promote and secure to both perpetual peace and harmony; and having for this desirable end already laid the foundation of peace and reconciliation by the Provisional Articles signed at Paris on the 30th of November 1782, by the commissioners empowered on each part, which articles were agreed to be inserted in and constitute the Treaty of Peace proposed to be concluded between the Crown of Great Britain and the said United States,

Only Benjamin Franklin signed all three.
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Offline Hap

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Re: Under God in pledge of allegiance.
« Reply #76 on: April 10, 2008, 10:21:26 PM »
Quote from: Tango on April 09, 2008, 11:05:14 PM
Yes and Washington's proclamation making Thanksgiving a national holiday and recognizing God. Lets not also forget he was one of the founders of this nation.

Absolutely.  I'm all for what George and others were about!
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Offline SkyRock

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Re: Under God in pledge of allegiance.
« Reply #77 on: April 10, 2008, 11:12:46 PM »
Quote from: Tango on April 10, 2008, 06:41:18 PM
I just showed how the first President of this country and one of the founding Fathers supported acknowledging God. However, you and all the other Libs keep saying theres no reason to and one of the biggest reasons not to is "separation of church and state" which is not in the Constitution.

As for the Treaty, that was with a Muslim nation. It has nothing to do with the citizens of this country. It was a treaty in which the government paid tribute to pirates to get them to leave our ships alone and I'm sure article 11 was put in to appease them even more than the money they were paying them to not attack or ships.

No matter what is where, America was founded on the basis of an idea of escaping governmental religion.  Period!!!! :aok  (governmental religion)It has taken its toll on our progress and quest for the truth as human beings throughout the past, and obviosly will continue to do so!  We don't have to like it. :aok  Don't try and make it, "God's will", because some obese senators were cowardly trying to make a statement and yelling, "wer'e good folks and all of you who don't believe as us are bad", truth is, the founding fathers were more discrete and "American" about it all!  It is why they didn't put, "In God we trust" on any currency as this nation was being founded.  It was a direct result of giving everyone their, "breathing room", as far as religion goes! :aok
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Offline SirLoin

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Re: Under God in pledge of allegiance.
« Reply #78 on: April 10, 2008, 11:29:29 PM »
The only mention of religion in the Constitution,is for the exclusion of it ...from state politics.

The First Ammendment(Thomas Jefferson,Thomas Paine)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 11:31:36 PM by SirLoin »
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Offline SirLoin

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Re: Under God in pledge of allegiance.
« Reply #79 on: April 10, 2008, 11:30:09 PM »
...damn dpost
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Offline angelsandair

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Re: Under God in pledge of allegiance.
« Reply #80 on: April 11, 2008, 12:43:58 AM »
wow I pretty much forgot about this one. still goin?
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Offline wrag

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Re: Under God in pledge of allegiance.
« Reply #81 on: April 11, 2008, 08:28:29 AM »
Quote from: MORAY37 on April 09, 2008, 11:39:29 AM
I don't believe cops have the authority of deadly force for seatbelt infractions.  I may be wrong where you live, though Lazs.  Here it is a 20$ dollar fine and is an offense they cannot explicitly pull you over for.  Every post you get nuttier and nuttier.

Only $20?

In some states it starts at $50 and goes up AND they can pull you over for NOT wearing a seat belt in some states.

I KNOW cause it happened to me!  $50 dollar fine etc.....
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It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline wrag

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Re: Under God in pledge of allegiance.
« Reply #82 on: April 11, 2008, 08:30:59 AM »
Quote from: Chairboy on April 08, 2008, 10:59:46 PM
Unless you have more than one God (see 'Monotheism' versus 'Polytheism') or simply don't believe there is a god and don't want the US to move in the direction of Iran's or Afghanistan's previous theocracy.


HMMM............

I recall the legal system and laws from my younger days.

Seems to me the U.S. is moving AWAY and not TOWARD such.
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It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline lazs2

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Re: Under God in pledge of allegiance.
« Reply #83 on: April 11, 2008, 09:56:24 AM »
what religion is being refered to in the founding documents?  God, or divininity is is mentioned in all three.. just as it is in the pledge and on the money.

I see no link to an establishment of religion in any of this.   It is a big blowup about nothing.  If 80% of the people want it on the money.. what is the big deal.. it doesn't say "in jesus we trust".   If you don't believe in a god.. what's the big deal?  you can just smugly laugh at all the believers right?  It being there causes you no harm.  You do not have to say the pledge for instance... hell.. these days.. you don't even have to see the money.   Your visa don't have any of that god stuff on it.   And they are great guys too.


lazs
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Offline Tango

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Re: Under God in pledge of allegiance.
« Reply #84 on: April 11, 2008, 10:04:27 AM »
Quote from: SkyRock on April 10, 2008, 11:12:46 PM
No matter what is where, America was founded on the basis of an idea of escaping governmental religion.  Period!!!! :aok  (governmental religion)It has taken its toll on our progress and quest for the truth as human beings throughout the past, and obviosly will continue to do so!  We don't have to like it. :aok  Don't try and make it, "God's will", because some obese senators were cowardly trying to make a statement and yelling, "wer'e good folks and all of you who don't believe as us are bad", truth is, the founding fathers were more discrete and "American" about it all!  It is why they didn't put, "In God we trust" on any currency as this nation was being founded.  It was a direct result of giving everyone their, "breathing room", as far as religion goes! :aok

Acknowledging God hasn't anything to do with a government sanctioned religion. Otherwise Washington wouldn't have made the statement about ackknowleding him. Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc all believe in God or a creator. The difference is how they worship him. THAT is the freedom of religion that the Fathers of this country wanted to protect.
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Offline bongaroo

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Re: Under God in pledge of allegiance.
« Reply #85 on: April 11, 2008, 12:20:47 PM »
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Offline Jackal1

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Re: Under God in pledge of allegiance.
« Reply #86 on: April 12, 2008, 02:55:37 AM »
Quote from: SirLoin on April 08, 2008, 09:04:45 PM
If God can heal,then why is there medicine?

It`s the generic alternative for atheists.




 ;)
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Offline Holden McGroin

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Re: Under God in pledge of allegiance.
« Reply #87 on: April 12, 2008, 03:56:50 AM »
Quote from: Tango on April 11, 2008, 10:04:27 AM
Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc all believe in God or a creator. 

What about Buddism?
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Offline SirLoin

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Re: Under God in pledge of allegiance.
« Reply #88 on: April 12, 2008, 06:40:30 AM »
Quote from: Holden McGroin on April 12, 2008, 03:56:50 AM
What about Buddism?

Religion or way of life?

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