OK,enuff with the furballers mentality!

[DoNKeY]

I think it's all just a matter of opinion, and what each person feels is important to themselves.  Would I like to see everyone 'fly for the fight?'   HELL YES I would, but it's not up to me.  People pay their own money to be able to enjoy this game, and enjoy it in whatever way they see fit.  It may not be what's right to some, or even me, but that's not up to us to decide/judge on.

I started out the same way-flying with the group, getting alt, and flying late war uber planes.  I enjoyed it, for a while.  Eventually it got stale and boring for me, just continuously outnumbering the opponents, and having just about every advantage.  I also remember that I would run when I got outnumbered. 

I flew for score early on, seeing how high of a K/D ratio, among other things, that I could get.  While I flew 'smarter,' I could definitely tell that I wasn't enjoying myself at all.  I was too focused on scores, and not enough about having fun, and I wasn't getting any better. 

I always wanted to an 'ace' so to speak.  Even before signing up to the game, I browsed the forums.  I read over the various descriptions of the planes that HT has up on the site, and I would imagine myself going along at 10k all by myself.  I would imagine seeing a lonely con off in the distance, and turning towards him.  I would also imagine a drawn out, swirling dogfight, in which  I eventually won.  I guess remembering that is what really turned me towards improving my game and becoming that 'ace.'

I decided to totally forget score.  I flew for the fun of things, and to constantly improve myself to the point where I could win a majority of all my dogfights, and become that ace who roams the sky by himself looking for his next victim (and I'll let you guys know when I get to that status ).

I threw myself into nonwinable situations.  I tried new things and died.  It bothered me, yeah, because I had always had the mentality of coming out of things alive, becuase that's how it was like IRL.  But eventually I got over it.

I know fly for the fight.  I would much rather prefer fighting 1v1 fights that I lose shortly after beginning (as long as I learn something) then go out with others and bag 15 and land it with little risk to myself.





I think we all eventually get to that point where we realize it;  that a great 1v1 that is evenly matched, which leaves your heart pounding profusely, about to rip out of your chest, which leaves your hands sweating from being so nervous and in to it, and your whole arm shaking after it's finished is much more important no matter what the outcome, win or lose.  I think it just takes some people longer to get to that mentality.

donkey 

[Ack-Ack]

I would submit a solution would be to have a fightertown like AW.The mob could go there and furball till the obese lady sings.
IronDog

As someone pointed out, we had one but your fellow limp-wristed Rainbow Warriors decided that since the Furballers were having so much fun there, the Rainbow Warriors decided to ruin it for everyone.  How you may ask?  Well, your fellow limp-wristed Rainbow Warriors would come in and destroy the FHs at all the bases because we weren't "helping to win the WAR (TM)".  On a side note, 2006 was a record year for giving out the Rainbow Warriors Flag for Toolshed Destruction and Milk Running Excellence.


ack-ack

[Masherbrum]

As someone pointed out, we had one but your fellow limp-wristed Rainbow Warriors decided that since the Furballers were having so much fun there, the Rainbow Warriors decided to ruin it for everyone.  How you may ask?  Well, your fellow limp-wristed Rainbow Warriors would come in and destroy the FHs at all the bases because we weren't "helping to win the WAR (TM)".  On a side note, 2006 was a record year for giving out the Rainbow Warriors Flag for Toolshed Destruction and Milk Running Excellence.


ack-ack

  <<S>> bro.   

[Anaxogoras]

If that's what is fun for you, then go for it.  Every so often, just to remind myself, I fly a flight where I only fight when I can't lose.  It bores me.  Anyone can fly the fringes, hang high and only engage when it's a perfect set up, and burn off all their fuel and go home.  I can do that, but it seems silly.  it proves nothing to me, other then I can waste time avoiding a situation where I might 'die'.

I hardly fly an uber bird that can disengage and run in the 38G.  And it's a huge target   But there is great satisfaction for me in getting into the fight and seeing what I can do against the latewar birds and those with alt and E.

Again, since there is no risk of really dying, the reward for me is defeating the other guy if I can in those situations.  I suppose it's why some of us go low numbers country too.  I'd rather fight from the under dog position then from the one with all the advantages.  I want to get into the fight, even if I might not win.

You've gotta play the game the way you want, as it's your dime and your definition of fun.  I have to play it the way that's fun for me.

I don't see what's incompatible between putting yourself at risk and landing kills.

Anyway, I judge how I'm doing by my K/D ratio.  Seems like the only objective standard for success.  My $.02.

[BiPoLaR]

As someone pointed out, we had one but your fellow limp-wristed Rainbow Warriors decided that since the Furballers were having so much fun there, the Rainbow Warriors decided to ruin it for everyone.  How you may ask?  Well, your fellow limp-wristed Rainbow Warriors would come in and destroy the FHs at all the bases because we weren't "helping to win the WAR (TM)".  On a side note, 2006 was a record year for giving out the Rainbow Warriors Flag for Toolshed Destruction and Milk Running Excellence.


ack-ack

 

[moot]

I don't see what's incompatible between putting yourself at risk and landing kills.

You can't do both at the same time, unless you've got a stalker or vulcher around.  Unless you count tea-bagging the runway as a risk..

[Anaxogoras]

You can't do both at the same time, unless you've got a stalker or vulcher around.  Unless you count tea-bagging the runway as a risk..

You're basically arguing semantics now, saying that "risk" only applies to being a 90% favorite to die.

I think a lot of people want it to be the case that risk and landing kills are incompatible, and then reason that it's so, but that's wishful thinking.  The furballers convince themselves this way because...

a) it makes them feel manly
b) it's a moral win over the pickers
c) it justifies impulse gratification which usually leads to virtual death, and most of us don't get enough impulse gratification in our everyday lives.

I try to land my kills, even after putitng myself at risk, because...

a) it makes me feel manly
b) it's better than a mere moral win
c) Silk gives me a rash.

[BnZ]

If that's what is fun for you, then go for it.  Every so often, just to remind myself, I fly a flight where I only fight when I can't lose.  It bores me.  Anyone can fly the fringes, hang high and only engage when it's a perfect set up, and burn off all their fuel and go home.  I can do that, but it seems silly.  it proves nothing to me, other then I can waste time avoiding a situation where I might 'die'.

There is no way to fly where you positively can't loose, that is a paper tiger. Even if you are in a 262, there is always the possibility of another 262 bouncing you. No matter the ride, alt, or speed, I always work under the assumption the sky is crawling multiple, higher, faster, cons. Let me ASSURE you that if I am in my 190 and I meet another lone 190, I commence to dogfighting with him. Figuring the average level of MA piloting, especially in 190s, I know my chances are good. I can't say I do this without trepidation, as one of us is likely to end up picked by someone who happens along and has nothing better to do than pick a 190 made a vulnerable by getting into a turn fight. But hey, it is the MA and everything IS fair.

I hardly fly an uber bird that can disengage and run in the 38G.  And it's a huge target  But there is great satisfaction for me in getting into the fight and seeing what I can do against the latewar birds and those with alt and E.

People say things like this quite abit. Thing about alot of those "early kites" and "latewar uber birds" is that the latter were not really considered uber because they were easy to dogfight in, but because they were easy to use hit and run tactics in. In many cases, the early kites have a decided turning advantage. And angles fighting against a poorer turner is acknowledged to be the easier and more intuitive way of fighting. P-38G is a nice little turner. I certainly wouldn't think of  saying anything against you for flying it. Flying anything that isn't a Spit, La7, or N1K makes you one of the "cool kids" IMO (Not that there is anything wrong with flying ANYTHING YOU WANT at all.) But still it beats many of the late-war uber rides you speak of hands down for maneuverability, and IMO, in a 1v1, the average gunner in the Mustang or 190 or 109K, etc, has a much harder job in flying to get a clean shot at you using E fighting tactics than you do evading him, and certainly has a harder job than you would if YOU were the one closing on his six with E in your better-turning ride.  Please understand me, I don't mean this an insult against your skills. But an E advantage in a much worse turning plane simply does not convert to a kill on a better maneuvering plane in a 1v1 as easily as some of you claim. If pilot "A" can bounce pilot "B" in a Spit/N1K/Zeke/Hurri with a 190 or a Pony, and kill him in a 1v1 maneuvering fight, he can probably also win a "duel" in similar rides.

[moot]

That's not semantics, it's basic physics. You can't be at two places at the same time.  Landing voids the possibility to fight to the last drop of fuel or round of ammo.
I think you want a lot of people to want it to be the case that risk and landing kills are incompatible, and then reason that it's so, but for that to be wishful thinking.  You want the "furballers" to do it for reasons a, b, and c, because it'd match your expectations.  The fact, though is that I don't bother rtb'ing 3 times out of 4 for none of those reasons.  I'd wager morality has nothing to do with it for most other players, too, furballers or not.

[Anaxogoras]

That's not semantics, it's basic physics. You can't be at two places at the same time.  Landing voids the possibility to fight to the last drop of fuel or round of ammo.

"Risk" means the chance that you might not rtb, not certitude that you won't.  The way you use "risk," it might as well be a different word, maybe we should coin it as "Rrisk" with a double R to point out just how rrisky we try to be!

I think you want a lot of people to want it to be the case that risk and landing kills are incompatible, and then reason that it's so, but for that to be wishful thinking.  You want the "furballers" to do it for reasons a, b, and c, because it'd match your expectations.  The fact, though is that I don't bother rtb'ing 3 times out of 4 for none of those reasons.  I'd wager morality has nothing to do with it for most other players, too, furballers or not.

Now you're getting silly.  I wishfully believe that you wishfully believe that landing kills and risk are incompatible?  Well, then you wishfully believe that I wishfully believe that you wishfully believe that...   I think you're on the record as believing that landing kills and risk are incompatible.  You have proved me wrong on this point:  you don't believe it because of wishful thinking, but because you are talking about rrisk and not risk.

[Guppy35]

I don't see what's incompatible between putting yourself at risk and landing kills.

Anyway, I judge how I'm doing by my K/D ratio.  Seems like the only objective standard for success.  My $.02.

Even K/D doesn't mean that much.  Again it all depends on how you fly.  I promise you that my K/D would be higher if I flew Spits and flew safe.  I don't but that's my choice.  I measure my success by how I feel when I'm flying.  If I'm laughing and enjoying myself it's been a success.

Be clear on one thing.  It's your dime and you do what you want to have fun.  There is no right way, only the way that's the most fun for you.

[moot]

 

"Risk" means the chance that you might not rtb, not certitude that you won't.  The way you use "risk," it might as well be a different word, maybe we should coin it as "Rrisk" with a double R to point out just how rrisky we try to be!

huh?

Now you're getting silly.  I wishfully believe that you wishfully believe that landing kills and risk are incompatible?  Well, then you wishfully believe that I wishfully believe that you wishfully believe that...   I think you're on the record as believing that landing kills and risk are incompatible.

If you take it out of context, yep.  I'm saying you cant rtb to land kills and furball at the same time.  Is that semantics?

[Slamfire]

Even K/D doesn't mean that much.  Again it all depends on how you fly.  I promise you that my K/D would be higher if I flew Spits and flew safe.  I don't but that's my choice.  I measure my success by how I feel when I'm flying.  If I'm laughing and enjoying myself it's been a success.

Be clear on one thing.  It's your dime and you do what you want to have fun.  There is no right way, only the way that's the most fun for you.

After playing some 15+ years (AW/WB/AH), I've found that (generally) the toughest opponents around are the ones that
hold a roughly 1:1 K/D ratio, and have huge hours (and total kills) logged.

I've never feared high K/D ratios or safe fliers - at least not when I've met them on equal terms.

But... like guppy35 said - it's your dime, spend it how you will: I have no grudge against any "score-hoar" or (conversely) "furballer".

Respect is earned individually 
 
Slamfire

[Shuffler]

Some fly till they die and get 10 pelts. Some get three pelts and run home to see their name in lights. K/D means very little to me. Fun is very important as I am playing a game where I get to be a fighter pilot for awhile. I also get to fly with Squad and friends no matter what team I am on.

As for the pickers, there is no greater joy than laughing as they auger. In my case I see more failures at it than successes. Since everyone is not able to actually be able to track multiple aircraft and react in a timely manner I can see where some would sit in the lawn chairs around the edges of the fight. Everyone that pays to play should be able to try to be the best they can be no matter where that falls on the ladder.

[moot]

There's one simple path that most players follow.. Once they realize that names in light are just that, a name in lights regardless of whether you vulched or turned the tables on a 4:1, they see that the real victory is in overcoming adversity.  Victory with no risk is shallow, meaningless.  So once they climb up the learning curve, they will probably get little satisfaction from winning a 1:1 vs. a noob, they want some risk to give their victory value.
That's where the real quality is.  Not in doing something that's as risky as locking on missiles to a biplane that's miles away from your F22.  Picking in AH is fine if the odds are against you 3:1 or more... 1 or 2:1, it's just cowardice.

And before anyone says something obvious.. I fly 152s against all the TNB planes in AH.  I know what flying a "bnz"ing plane into a "tnb" fight is like.