Author Topic: Stuka Vs C205  (Read 1716 times)

Offline waystin2

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Re: Stuka Vs C205
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2008, 05:06:25 PM »
I'm not sure why you find this "odd".  In fact, I would expect nothing less from 95% of players.  So scared to die they run to ack.  Bet even if you had been in a B5N on his 6 he'd still run.

We need a name.  You should've called out his dweebery on Ch200 and let everyone know.


I find it odd by my own MA play style.  If the situation was reversed, I would have been licking my chops looking at that big & slow Stuka.  As far as a name...think of the company whose name starts with a V, that produces Vapor rub(with a slightly different spelling).
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Offline kamilyun

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Re: Stuka Vs C205
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2008, 05:16:28 PM »
I find it odd by my own MA play style.  If the situation was reversed, I would have been licking my chops looking at that big & slow Stuka.  As far as a name...think of the company whose name starts with a V, that produces Vapor rub(with a slightly different spelling).

Admittedly it is a bit odd, but I guess I've gotten used to it.

No surprise on Vapor Rub scorepotato.  I figure since he was in a 205 he was working on his fighter score.  Couldn't have that ruined by a fun fight with a Stuka. 

Offline BnZ

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Re: Stuka Vs C205
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2008, 05:20:17 PM »
Let’s visualize an extension with the bandit attempting to catch us. I’ve made some rough rules of thumb for you to consider based on turning performance. I’ll assume that we can complete the 180 degree turn around in 10-15 seconds. During that time, the bandit will be closing on us. This figure shows the situation:

Next, I’ll choose two types of bandits…a WW2 type at 300mph and a modern jet at 600KIAS. These speeds allow me to compute how far the bandits travel in the time that it takes us to turn around (I’ll average the distance for the 10-15 second period). By rounding the numbers off, I come up with a distance of 1nm (6000’) for the WW2 fighter and about 2nm (12000’) for the jet fighter. I then add my desired distance at roll out and end up with approximate values of 2nm for a WW2 situation and 4nm for a jet situation. These are just rough values, but they do give you a feel for the time/distance relationship of the turn back maneuver.

How do you know when you are at these ranges? Many sims offer target labels that gives you bandit range. I do not look upon these as a cheat since the depth perception and ability to depict fine graphical detail is lacking in our sims. If the video picture allowed us to recognize and measure range as easily as can be done in real life, then I would not favor labels…but that is not the case.

The reason why I went through this math drill was to show you that the distances are not as close as some might imagine. In order to effectively return to the fight, you must get substantial separation prior to initiating the turn back. One cautionary note – these are real world approximates. They are based on specific turn rates. Your sim flight model may or may not use real world turn rates…we have all seen bandits do some amazing turns and reversals in our sims. In those cases where a sim’s flight model is suspect, only trial and error will produce an answer to the question of "how far is far enough".

One last caution. If you are going to err in this estimation of when to turn back, err on the conservative side. Extending too far is much better than not far enough. What may happen if you do not go out far enough? Quite simply, the bandit has the opportunity to rejoin on you in your turn.


From "Boom and Zoom Tactics", chapter two, by Andy Bush the whole article can be found here. http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_024a.html I understand the author knows something about ACM...Consider the ack and WWs a time-saver in this situation, rather than having to extend the whole approximately 4K.

Maybe the noob deserved to get shot down for not knowing that the one place a Stuka could beat his 205 was a flat turning fight...maybe Waystin2 would be much happier if the guy had skillfully used the vertical and killed him with a good snap-shot, instead of hit and run. Maybe.

Then again, maybe all the noob did was find a way, (a crude and untutored way, to be sure), to use the relative strengths of his airplane, and to demonstrate just why the Stuka was considered so vulnerable.

<S> No disrespect intended towards anybody.

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Stuka Vs C205
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2008, 06:33:53 PM »

Then again, maybe all the noob did was find a way, (a crude and untutored way, to be sure), to use the relative strengths of his airplane, and to demonstrate just why the Stuka was considered so vulnerable.



Honestly, if anyone ran from a Ju87 in this game while in a fighter they are timid or lack any knowledge of ACM, plain and simple. 

The C.205 should have blown away the Ju87 in one pass, all that was needed was go into a High Yo-Yo while the Ju87 did a breaking flat turn and the C.205 would have had a beautiful angle as he down inside the Stuka's turn.


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Offline E25280

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Re: Stuka Vs C205
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2008, 08:02:22 PM »
I'm not sure why you find this "odd".  In fact, I would expect nothing less from 95% of players.  So scared to die they run to ack.  Bet even if you had been in a B5N on his 6 he'd still run.
Speaking of B5N's . . .

A long while back on the Baltic Map I spied a low con heading toward a friendly CV that was trying to navigate north of A45 (I think).  There was a big furball to the south of the CV, and this con was coming from the east, on the deck, trying to avoid it so as to get a shot on the carrier.  I had upped from a land base in a Hurri IIC.

As I dove on it, I saw it was a B5N.  He dropped his torp so he could turn out of my way.  Long story short, even in a Hurri IIC, I could not for the life of me get a clean shot on this guy, and he eventually ended up on my 6.  After laughing my rear end off for being so thoroughly owned by a guy who couldn't kill me despite the ownage, I finally said on 200 "ok, you got me. I am RTB."  Instead of flying off triumphantly -- he bailed.

Thinking about it now, I should have augured and given him the kill.

I swore I would never forget it . . . and yet now I can't remember who the pilot was.   :(
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Offline ShrkBite

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Re: Stuka Vs C205
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2008, 09:48:48 PM »
If anyone would like to see a D3A (Zip5389) Own an Me-163 (UberSlet) in the DA, i taped it!!

Offline Halo46

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Re: Stuka Vs C205
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2008, 10:36:06 PM »
My dog fighting skills are on the low side of average, but I did manage to wound and run off an F6F in my B-25-H once without HO shots, lots of fun. My squaddie and I turn fought our TBM's with an LA7 once as well, he finally shot down my squaddie after 20 minutes or so, I augered after a stall on the deck after only five...
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Stuka Vs C205
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2008, 11:50:51 PM »
I find it odd by my own MA play style.  If the situation was reversed, I would have been licking my chops looking at that big & slow Stuka.  As far as a name...think of the company whose name starts with a V, that produces Vapor rub(with a slightly different spelling).

isn't he a sore boy? i think(not sure though) i used to kill him in EW..if it's who i think it is........

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Offline CAP1

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Re: Stuka Vs C205
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2008, 11:56:33 PM »


Maybe the noob deserved to get shot down for not knowing that the one place a Stuka could beat his 205 was a flat turning fight...maybe Waystin2 would be much happier if the guy had skillfully used the vertical and killed him with a good snap-shot, instead of hit and run. Maybe.

Then again, maybe all the noob did was find a way, (a crude and untutored way, to be sure), to use the relative strengths of his airplane, and to demonstrate just why the Stuka was considered so vulnerable.

<S> No disrespect intended towards anybody.


i think if he had done that, then waystain would've had a much more fun fight.....i don't think i've ever seen anyone run from a stuka......yet....
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Offline Latrobe

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Re: Stuka Vs C205
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2008, 12:09:11 AM »
The Stuka is surprisingly a great turn fighter! Slow speed, big wings, and loads of BB's to PO the guy fighting you  :D . I actually have to chase down and kill a Spit 16 in a stuka once  :lol .

Offline wrongwayric

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Re: Stuka Vs C205
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2008, 05:55:34 AM »
I fought a P51b in midwar for almost 5 min one day in a Stuka. He kept running out turning diveing in, i'd do a hard turn he'd zoom back up. I got him low to the deck and was pretty much doing the same thing till he finally gets frustrated and comes in and tries to HO me. :O I unloaded with the stuka's awesome firepower  :lol pulled up hard and bounced off his cockpit, killing him instantly! :rofl Of course he pm's me and calls me a HO tard. :huh :lol

Offline waystin2

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Re: Stuka Vs C205
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2008, 10:54:22 AM »


"maybe Waystin2 would be much happier if the guy had skillfully used the vertical and killed him with a good snap-shot, instead of hit and run. Maybe."

"<S> No disrespect intended towards anybody.'


Actually BNZ, not happy or unhappy on this one.  More or less want to spark story telling on odd matchups, how they played out, planes involved, etc.  I am not much into the channel 200 & BBS 'call the dweebery out" mentality that some folks have.  I say live and let die(preferably someone else).  Oh, and no insult taken.

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Offline CAP1

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Re: Stuka Vs C205
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2008, 11:04:02 AM »

"maybe Waystin2 would be much happier if the guy had skillfully used the vertical and killed him with a good snap-shot, instead of hit and run. Maybe."

"<S> No disrespect intended towards anybody.'


Actually BNZ, not happy or unhappy on this one.  More or less want to spark story telling on odd matchups, how they played out, planes involved, etc.  I am not much into the channel 200 & BBS 'call the dweebery out" mentality that some folks have.  I say live and let die(preferably someone else).  Oh, and no insult taken.



i didn't interpret his statement as meaning bnz...i thought he meant a turnfight, but using more verticle manuevers, as opposed to horizontal maneuvers.

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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Stuka Vs C205
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2008, 12:08:48 PM »
Yup that is what he meant.... have you gone verical in a stuka.....  :aok
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Stuka Vs C205
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2008, 12:33:50 PM »
Yup that is what he meant.... have you gone verical in a stuka.....  :aok

Yes.  But that was down.
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