Dueling arena

[crockett]

well for the IL2 for instance, it has crappy views so using F3 lets you easily set up snapshots and even long distance shots that you would never do with out F3. So it is a clear advantage even in a fighter once you get good with it. IMO if F3 mode is on, they should have it set up so you can't fire your guns while in that mode.

[uptown]

Your only problem is not knowing what your talking about .
The Furball Arena is a good place to shake off rust in as little time as possible .
The F3 guys usually just auger cause of no depth perception .

Quiet Sax! the adults are having a discussion. 

[dkff49]

well for the IL2 for instance, it has crappy views so using F3 lets you easily set up snapshots and even long distance shots that you would never do with out F3. So it is a clear advantage even in a fighter once you get good with it. IMO if F3 mode is on, they should have it set up so you can't fire your guns while in that mode.

I can only picture in my mind what you are saying because I have only flown the IL2 (maybe) 2 times since starting AH2. This would be an advantage. I still think though that it is not a strong enough advantage to call an ill ended flight the result of an opponent using F3 to fight in. But like I said I tried several times to fly in offline and even early on in H2H in F3 and just could not adjust. But I adjusted relatively easily to cockpit view flight and this maybe in part to starting out the way I did in F3. I say leave it in (IMO) and if you chose to use it fine if not that is fine too. I just think that once you are able to form that mental image in your mind getting those snapshots is still possible. You just have to judge the distance and speed of your opponent. Which this is half the fight anyway even in cockpit and F3 mode. To maintain good SA you have to look in all directions repeatedly (I still need more work in this area especially). Which requires you to look away from your opponent even in F3 mode. He may have a slightly better chance at a snapshotin F3 mode than in cockpit but if he were experienced I think the advantage would be minor at best and not enough to call unbeatable and yet also not enough to ruin my fun.

Just sayingit is really all about fun fights and if someone is using F3 and providing me a challenge then that is fine with me. I am not really here for the realizism but for the edge of seat fights (especially the DA). I say F3 away give me a challenge.

[moot]

Can't argue that logic...I give up...you win.

What do I win?

dkff49, you're gonna have to boil down your posts.. There's a gunsight, you just don't know about it.  And if you can't see how F3 is an advantage, you're on your own, sorry.

[Widewing]

In your opinion does F3 help anyone learn .
I see using the DA the same as MA , why fly F3 when it's not in the Main .
I could be wrong , would like your thots .

It helps players who are having trouble maintaining a visual on the opposing player(s). They can glance all around. However, it doesn't seem to be of much help if you're already in trouble.

In the TA, it allows new players to have some basic level of SA. The drawback is that some guys fly that way too often and can't get along without it and feel blind in the MA.

It allows players to see things below their nose, that otherwise would not be visible. It allows easier tracking of multiple enemies.

Personally, I don't think it should be on in the DA. Yet, I don't find it to be a major issue, as everyone has that capability. I do think, however, that a pilot will never become as good as he can be if he relies on F3.

My regards,

Widewing

[SkyRock]

While I'm not complaining, I can kill very efficiently from the F3 position, especially on deflection shots. I don't complain about F3 being enabled as it's enabled for everyone. Would it be more of a challenge if it were not? Maybe, maybe not. Again, all things are equal.

I've dueled with many of the best in the game and when I reviewed the films, every one of them used F3 to sneak a peak here and there. Doesn't bother me a bit, they're just utilizing what is available, certain that the other guy is too.

My regards,

Widewing

I've never used it in any arena but the MA with the IL2, and that is very rare.  I don't like it, I am used to my own way of "seeing" out of my plane.  I use the number keypad for views and always have.

[dkff49]

.. There's a gunsight, you just don't know about it.  And if you can't see how F3 is an advantage, you're on your own, sorry.

I know I don't know about it that is why in an earlier post I asked you to explain what you meant by a gunsight being present. I have not been able to find a way to use a gunsight until Crocket posted. Is this what you meant?

Sorry for long posts though just trying to make sure I don't lead people in an unintended direction.

You are probably right I guess I will never see more of an advantage other than a minor amount of SA advantage. Mostly because like Skyrock I can not get used to the F3 mode.

hope this a little better

[moot]

Yes.  Looking forward, the exact center of the screen is your gunsight.  Put a dot there and you've got yourself a glass cockpit.
Sorry for not having the patience to read your posts, but I already spend too much time reading and writing in the forums as it is.. If you type out posts of that size without using paragraphs, it'll give people a reason to just not bother with decrypting the block o text .

I can't stand F3 either.  It's gamey and doesn't have the instruments.   And I don't like using crutches like that.. It makes winning cheap and shallow.

Another thing is that one of the most  (if not the most) efficient ways to efficiently use a tool, any tool, is to mentaly make it an extension of your body.  If you're racing a car, you can easily mentaly absorb it, the tires becoming the skin of your feet, the suspension your legs, etc.  Flying in F3 gives one more degree of removal from that.

[Gianlupo]

Are you saying it's easier in "F-3"?

Hmmm, I don't recall asking if it (f-3) was "easier"..simply wanted "opinion expansion" .   

The first quote looks like a question, to me. And it wasn't that far from my post.

Or, if you prefer, I didn't answer any question, I just gave you an expanded opinion.

[dentin]

The first quote looks like a question, to me. And it wasn't that far from my post.

Or, if you prefer, I didn't answer any question, I just gave you an expanded opinion.

You're correct in both instances..   

[Bruv119]

good fights  sads and agent the other day.

seems that the furball area does descend into anarchy when the americans hop in.   

[Saurdaukar]

I don't like it, I am used to my own way of "seeing" out of my plane.  I use the number keypad for views and always have.

This is why I continually resist going to a full HOTAS & peddle setup.  I'm still using a twisty stick with a mini throttle attached and cant imagine learning to use a hat switch to look around.  Would probably take me an entire tour to get use to not flying with my left hand on the keypad, let alone managing to maintain solid SA.

[Bruv119]

hotas usually has more than one 8 way Hat,

On my stick i have the normal 8 then on another the second set.  I mix and match with my thumbs.  Same result as the num pad.

All your doing is pressing a button.

[Saurdaukar]

Im stubborn. 

[humble]

I have no clue how F3 could be considered a help unless you have a con buried in your low 6, in which case you probably need a cloaking device not F3. To me so much of a fight is subtle (or not so subtle) differences in E state, relative angles and lift vector orientation. The only accurate way to "feel" the differances IMO is from your cockpit view. This is entirely different from the old AW "glass cockpit" that gave you both the proper perspective and the view "under the nose".

I can see how a hat switch mapped to internal/external view might help a guy "fish the nose" but the variation in view would also throw the timing off IMO. I spend an awful lot of time in the A-20 and never use F3 except on climbout when I'm on Vox or occasionally if I'm flying cap and just calling out cons to other guys....the moment I'm engaged I'm back in the cockpit...to me the only place to really manage a fight from.