Top 10 aces of aces?

[Murdr]

Oh, too much ego to say "that's not what I ment"....It's "your wrong fool"

[Lazerr]

Shane was horrible...

Loudmouth la7 dweeb that gets slapped around by the twin engined bus... 

[Murdr]

You don't have to be the best 'skillz' to win KOTH. You do have to have the best skillz to win a 1:1.  Aggregate 1:1 tournament would be a better measure of skills.  KOTH has its novelties, but it has flaws I doubt you guys could fix..

Actually, I don't believe you do have have the best skillz to win a 1:1, a lucky HO, an unlucky collusion or warp, or even a positional FE lag were the shot looks impossible on one players FE, can determine the outcome of the fight regardless of "skill".  It happens all the time in AH.  But then again, I didn't see where this was limited to the top 10 1 vs 1 list.  I bet players are more impressed with the guy who downed them and their two buddies, than with an adversary that commonly beats them 1v1.

[Murdr]

I think your getting awfully defensive and i say no reason why, im not bashing an event, neither is anyone here, just clearly stateing in english that your winner from a koth isnt automatically ZOMG THE BEST EVER. I dont believe i used the term lame either. But whatever you want after all your the only one whos opinion counts, right?

No, I'm following this line of thinking to it's logical conclusion.  KoTH has no bearing on skill.  Therefore it stands to reason, that the same applies to the KoTH Championship event also has no bearing on skill.  After all, you can't play in that event without winning a regular KoTH (which the winning of has no bearing on skill).  The TOC is the same as all the other KoTHs, with the exception of the participants being invited.  Therefore, the outcome of that also should have no bearing on skill.  Therefore the results should back that up.

See, you can make this about me being petty all you want, I don't care.  But I see a hole in this argument, and I won't be shy about pointing it out.  Considering the fact that this subject came up with the statement that "Then Kappa must be the best pilot in Aces High since he won KoTH", and he has not won a KoTH since the TOC, then my comments regarding TOC are entirely relevent.

[evenhaim]

No, I'm following this line of thinking to it's logical conclusion.  KoTH has no bearing on skill.  Therefore it stands to reason, that the same applies to the KoTH Championship event also has no bearing on skill.  After all, you can't play in that event without winning a regular KoTH (which the winning of has no bearing on skill).  The TOC is the same as all the other KoTHs, with the exception of the participants being invited.  Therefore, the outcome of that also should have no bearing on skill.  Therefore the results should back that up.

See, you can make this about me being petty all you want, I don't care.  But I see a hole in this argument, and I won't be shy about pointing it out.  Considering the fact that this subject came up with the statement that "Then Kappa must be the best pilot in Aces High since he won KoTH", and he has not won a KoTH since the TOC, then my comments regarding TOC are entirely relevent.

I guess your used to people not arguing with you, but you line of thinking is a broken one. The participant base of Koth is hugley different from the toc, and there are people who will win monthly koths and get toc invites who definatly arent at or near the actuall skill level of most of the toc particepents, which is a huge difference, one or two get by every time and end up in toc. Just because you win a koth does NOT make you better than those who participated, are you willing to argue that?

[Murdr]

I guess your used to people not arguing with you, but you line of thinking is a broken one. The participant base of Koth is hugley different from the toc, and there are people who will win monthly koths and get toc invites who definatly arent at or near the actuall skill level of most of the toc particepents, which is a huge difference, one or two get by every time and end up in toc. Just because you win a koth does NOT make you better than those who participated, are you willing to argue that?

Well if there is a difference in the average skill level make-up of TOC particepents, and a regular KoTH, does that not suggest there is in fact an indicator of skill somewhere?  After all, if skill was not a factor, the TOC skill level would be the same as any KoTH?

[WMLute]

ok, i'm a wee bit biased here but....


The four King of the Hill Tourney O' Championships, of which all four I had the pleasure of being a part of, were without a doubt filled with some of the best flying you will ever find in this game.  There were incredible fights in each and every round of every TOC.  The Kappa Murdr P38 fight was one for the ages and the film of it should be stickied somewhere.

I will admit that there are people that earned an invite to the four TOC's that probably didn't have a that great of a shot at winning three rounds...
BUT I will also add that the list of players who had a very good shot at winning it all was a far longer list.  (myself being on the former of course)

Just take a glance at the 2007 TOC invite list.
AKDogg, Allison, Alucard, A8coflys, BearKats, Biggles, BluKitty, Bruv119, Fester, Fianna, Fringe, FX1, Hornet, Jim Beam, Kappa, Lazer, lucine, m00t, Muppy, Murdr, Platano, Scotch, SkyRock, Slash27, Squealer, Stang, TC, TW9, Vlkyrie1, Vudak, WaRLoCkL, WMLute

Out of the thirty two players invited I can name two dozen plus that had a very strong shot at winning it all and could hold their own or flat out beat 99.99% of the players in the game in a 1 on 1.










(somewhat ticked I wasn't on more peoples lists..........)

[SkyRock]

ok, i'm a wee bit biased here but....


The four King of the Hill Tourney O' Championships, of which all four I had the pleasure of being a part of, were without a doubt filled with some of the best flying you will ever find in this game.  There were incredible fights in each and every round of every TOC.  The Kappa Murdr P38 fight was one for the ages and the film of it should be stickied somewhere.

I will admit that there are people that earned an invite to the four TOC's that probably didn't have a that great of a shot at winning three rounds...
BUT I will also add that the list of players who had a very good shot at winning it all was a far longer list.  (myself being on the former of course)

Just take a glance at the 2007 TOC invite list.
AKDogg, Allison, Alucard, A8coflys, BearKats, Biggles, BluKitty, Bruv119, Fester, Fianna, Fringe, FX1, Hornet, Jim Beam, Kappa, Lazer, lucine, m00t, Muppy, Murdr, Platano, Scotch, SkyRock, Slash27, Squealer, Stang, TC, TW9, Vlkyrie1, Vudak, WaRLoCkL, WMLute

Out of the thirty two players invited I can name two dozen plus that had a very strong shot at winning it all and could hold their own or flat out beat 99.99% of the players in the game in a 1 on 1.

I agree with this statement.  As I have said before, ToC is full of badarses!

[Murdr]

I agree with this statement.  As I have said before, ToC is full of badarses!

I see two badarses listed twice in there under different names

[moot]

Sheesh.. Look at who's gotten his ego tickled here.. First chicken to cluck is the one that laid the egg.
You can win a KOTH at the expense of better sticks, yep.  So it follows that KOTH isn't a perfect measure of "skill".  How much simpler does it have to get?

I don't know what's gotten your glasses all fogged up, but you're getting ahead of yourself Murdr. 
" After all, if skill was not a factor,"  >>  I never said that.

I think it's possible you can't stand that someone as irreverent as myself, that's never bothered to pimp his skills all over a popular event like KOTH, and that you probably haven't seen any "skill" from, might be contradicting you; so that you wouldn't bother to read what I'm saying at face value.. 

[mechanic]

If you really wanted to make koth more about skill rather than mostly oppertunistic awareness then here with respect are my suggestions.

1. Completely disable icons for all participants. with neon signs a huge % of what real dogfighting is becomes useless.

2. Add wind in undulating layers. the last layer before the cloud base alt cap to be strong force to discourage BnZ and energy hording.(when someone says push to the limits of the evelope they do no mean push to 5,999.9 in a 6k alt cap.) This is a major point. i won a whole koth once and never went above 4500ft even before the starting whistle...then i was lucky and mostly the guys that night know how to handle themself without the speed. i have seen many others winning koths in style without pushing for max allowed altitude whenever not shooting people. the best kill i remember from any koth round i have been in was when i came in to attack Lute in 109Es. he was lower and pulled this rediculous snapshot on his reversal and sawed off my tail. it sticks in my mind because won from total disadvantage. many kills people get on me dont even register 2 minutes later.


3. mute all participating members from the start to when they get shot down or win.

4. if 5 wabbits are up then the game is drawn to sudden death with a 'wabbits only' final battle.


S!

[Murdr]

So it follows that KOTH isn't a perfect measure of "skill".

Face value - It's not perfect...but I'll add it's also not irrelevent.  That work?

[moot]

Yep, that's already better. I'd mute everyone right off the bat for the round's duration.
You'd need the CM to have icon control.  No icons might make the nojoy too unreliable.  If icons were forced off by the CM after nojoy was done, that'd work for the best.

And now that I think about it, if this was implemented, KOTH would be near enough to a perfect measure of skill that I'd put it above an aggregated 1:1 league/tournament.

Face value - It's not perfect...but I'll add it's also not irrelevent.  That work?

Where did I say it was irrelevent?

[mechanic]

this is inane for a point of discusion. In my Head this is the points what you both keep reapeting over and over..

M00t
"why dont we all make a film of ourselves landing P47s on a carrier? that takes skill just like koth does. they are both single elements of what makes a good player in this game skill wise. you cannot grade everything on koth TOC"

Murdr
"hey look i was in TOC too guys, dont forget about me just cause im a trainer"

[evenhaim]

this is inane for a point of discusion. In my Head this is the points what you both keep reapeting over and over..

M00t
"why dont we all make a film of ourselves landing P47s on a carrier? that takes skill just like koth does. they are both single elements of what makes a good player in this game skill wise. you cannot grade everything on koth TOC"

Murdr
"hey look i was in TOC too guys, dont forget about me just cause im a trainer"

How right you are..