Author Topic: General Gun Discussion  (Read 15074 times)

Offline Yeager

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #270 on: June 26, 2008, 01:58:35 PM »
Long Live the Right to Keep and Bear Arms!

Need you be reminded there is no ammendment denying a woman the right to do so.
The intentional killing of a human fetus is 3 things, imo:

a) Legal
b) Cruel and Unusual Punishment
c) Death purposefuly inflicted on the most innocent and indefensable segment of our species.

Oh...did I mention that it is legal?
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Offline Hornet33

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #271 on: June 26, 2008, 02:15:25 PM »
What about the rights of the baby?

What about the rights of the Father?

I believe abortion should be allowed in a case of rape, and incest with no questions asked, but as it stands today if a woman gets pregnant and wants to have an abortion she can do it and the father has no say at all in the matter. That's his child as well. That's where I have the biggest problem with everything.

I have 2 kids. A boy and a girl. I SHOULD have three kids but my ex had an abortion I didn't even know about untill years later. She never told me she was pregnant at the time and just went and had it done and NO ONE asked me what I thought about it. That was MY child that was killed before I even knew about it and it STILL pisses me off. Her reasoning was that she didn't want anymore kids and that two was enough for her. Never even crossed her mind that I might want to have anouther kid.

So what about MY rights when it comes to abortion??
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Offline Saurdaukar

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #272 on: June 26, 2008, 02:18:13 PM »
It would seem...


Fundamental difference in ideologically-based interpretation right here.

The documents are written in English.  I'm not sure how they can be misconstrued to "seem" to indicate anything.  Just read em.

Offline Toad

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #273 on: June 26, 2008, 02:20:07 PM »
Well, Hornet, it's like this.... it's her choice as long as the fetus is not "viable outside the womb"... so you get no vote.

That's fair, right?

But if a woman has a baby the father would like to have had aborted, he gets to pay child support for a long time.

That's fair, right?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline midnight Target

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #274 on: June 26, 2008, 02:21:45 PM »
Not my interpretation, the SC did that for us in Roe v Wade. The 14th was cited as the reasoning behind the ruling. So IT WOULD SEEM that the 14th says that women cannot be denied the right to an abortion. Sorry for not going into more detail earlier.

Offline Elfie

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #275 on: June 26, 2008, 02:28:57 PM »
Quote
Untill a child is born or can live on its own outside ofhe womb. It is only a potential life.

The unborn child has a heartbeat long before it can live outside the womb. What about children that are born premature? They live on life support and cannot survive w/o it. Is that child still only a potential life?

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The unborn inand of themselves should have no rights

Then why can people be charged with a double murder for killing a pregnant woman? If the unborn should have no rights, then there is no additional crime committed beyond killing the mother because you have only denied one person their right to life.
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Offline Elfie

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #276 on: June 26, 2008, 02:29:49 PM »
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Not my interpretation, the SC did that for us in Roe v Wade.

Roe vs Wade was the SC legislating from the bench.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #277 on: June 26, 2008, 02:29:54 PM »
What about the rights of the Father?

I believe abortion should be allowed in a case of rape, and incest with no questions asked, but as it stands today if a woman gets pregnant and wants to have an abortion she can do it and the father has no say at all in the matter. That's his child as well. That's where I have the biggest problem with everything.

I have 2 kids. A boy and a girl. I SHOULD have three kids but my ex had an abortion I didn't even know about untill years later. She never told me she was pregnant at the time and just went and had it done and NO ONE asked me what I thought about it. That was MY child that was killed before I even knew about it and it STILL pisses me off. Her reasoning was that she didn't want anymore kids and that two was enough for her. Never even crossed her mind that I might want to have anouther kid.

So what about MY rights when it comes to abortion??

I know your not going to like this answer.
And Im not saying it to piss you off or to hurt you.
But your rights as a father are the same as if you didnt want the kid and she did.

You have none.
Nor do I for that matter.

And quite honestly it makes sense even if you or I dont like it.

We are merely sperm donors untill the child is born.

From the time of conception the woman has all the burdon of carrying and the risk. Some women still die during childbirth.
You and I dont have the burdon. nor do we share that risk.
We get all the pleasure and none of the pain. Cept perhaps phsycologically.

One the child is born. then we can claim rights.

This two is a double edged sword.
for if we are going to claim rights as a father.
We should also be allowed to surrender those rights and responcabilities if we so choose.


What of the rightsof those who didnt want a kid?

You can as others have said say "Dont have sex"

And that makes for some very nice rhetoric.
Its just not very realistic.

But really if the woman has a child or has an abortion. We as fathers and/or potential fathers have no rights ne way or the other.
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For those who wish to know
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What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline Elfie

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #278 on: June 26, 2008, 02:33:04 PM »
Quote
You have none.
Nor do I for that matter.

Wrong, it's just as much my baby as it is hers whether it has been born or not. It takes 2 to make a baby not 1 and both parents should have equal rights in this.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Elfie

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #279 on: June 26, 2008, 02:33:55 PM »
I'm out of this one. This one has gone so far off track it isn't funny.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Toad

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #280 on: June 26, 2008, 02:34:15 PM »
Blackmun's papers were released.

http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/May-June-2005/feature_saleton_mayjun05.msp

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Now we have his previously private files—1,600 boxes of notes, draft opinions, and more—which New York Times reporter Linda Greenhouse has sifted through for her new book, Becoming Justice Blackmun....

...Part of the "etc." Blackmun invoked as precedent was Eisenstadt v. Baird, the 1972 decision that extended the right to contraception to single people. This was a sham, however: The justices designed the precedent to suit the progeny. Justice William Brennan's draft of Eisenstadt, which was circulated months after oral arguments in Roe, "was obviously crafted to apply in the abortion context," Greenhouse writes, noting that Brennan made the unnecessary assertion in Eisenstadt that the right to privacy entailed a right to choose whether to "bear" a child. Days after the court handed down Eisenstadt, Blackmun worked a reference to it into a draft of Doe, and later into Roe. Meanwhile, a federal court in Connecticut took the cue, declaring that Eisenstadt established a right to abortion. Justice Lewis Powell advised Blackmun to follow the Connecticut court's reasoning, and Blackmun ultimately did so, completing the daisy chain.

BLACKMUN'S PAPERS VINDICATE EVERY INDICTMENT of Roe: invention, overreach, arbitrariness, textual indifference


Blackmun didn't interpret the Constitution here; he created someting that wasn't there. Not the legacy I'd want.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #281 on: June 26, 2008, 02:41:56 PM »
I'm out of this one. This one has gone so far off track it isn't funny.

Hey! If they can no longer argue 2nd/Individual Right, then we'll just have to move on to abortion.   ;)

You don't want to read 200 posts in agreement now do you?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Elfie

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #282 on: June 26, 2008, 02:43:55 PM »
Quote
You don't want to read 200 posts in agreement now do you?

That would be quite the change wouldn't it?  :D
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Dago

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #283 on: June 26, 2008, 02:45:27 PM »
Let me just say this, Thank God GWB was able to put 3 conservatives on the SCOTUS.

Now I can only hope many raging liberal anti-gunners will perform ritual harikari with their drug apparatus.
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline AWMac

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Re: General Gun Discussion
« Reply #284 on: June 26, 2008, 02:45:38 PM »
How did we go from 2nd Amendment to Abortions?

Is this what they call a Hijack?