The bad thing about new vehicles

[VonMessa]

but it smokes and it's fun to work on.   

Nuff said 

Carry on.

[CAP1]

Cool. With all the stuff I  changed, my formerly high 13 second computer run  car is now in the mid 10's and a joy to tinker on.   

diluted? heheheh    deluded.   

whoops!!!

i worked the McGuire airshow this weekend. i've only had 12 or so hours sleep since thursday.
that's my best excuse!

<<S>>

[CAP1]

You are correct.  It gets you in the ballpark, though.  With some computer savvy, one can lookup what the codes mean.  If you can't correctly diagnose the problem once you know what system the problem is in, then one should probably shut the hood and let someone who knows what they are doing take over.  The car will tell you where to start looking for the problem.  If one can't diagnose down to the faulty component, walk away, because you probably shouldn't be messing with it anyhow.  It will only make the "real" wrench benders' life that much harder.

As for those of you "in the field" (I was until I had to be reassembled like humpty-dumpty), does your flat-rate time increase as the repairs get more complicated as the engineers make your life more miserable?  Possibly, if you work for a dealer (and it's not a warranty repair)  Probably not, if you work at a mom & pop garage or all-purpose repair shop.  If you are paid hourly, but are not given any refreshers on the new tech. as it comes out, shame on your employer for wasting money.

ya, i know what ya mean about the siompler days. unfortunatly, it's the cost of having our cake and eating it too. you probably remember the 4 cylinders of the past. 0 to 60 in the time it took to eat a good dinner. 
now there's 4 cyls. that can hammer some hot rods of yesteryear. trade off is this BS. for me though this is the fun part. you can train a drunk chimp to hang brakes all day. it takes skill, and talent to diagnose, as i now believe you know. that's where i have my fun.
 pay wise, when i worked for someone, i was hourly. my employers alwayse sent me to classes as needed, and sometimes before needed. i own my own shop now, so i don't get paid anymore!
seriously, i hate flat rate from both sides. i will never pay that way unless i'm punishing pooor performance. i never did work that way, as 90% of the time, if you do the job right, you don't make out. flat rate is an incentive for shoddy work.

<<S>>

The new computer stuff is only good for the new crap they add to the cars.

What happened to fuel/compression/spark and days of cars that you could climb under the hood to fix, sit on one fender and have a picnic lunch and radio sitting on the other one?

[indy007]

The codes are nice. Pull in to Autozone, have them check it with their handheld scanner (usually free), it tells you exactly what's wrong. My poor, dead 4Runner had a check engine light come on. Punched the code, told me misfire on #6 cylinder, so I spent 20 minutes replacing the plugs & coil packs. Problem solved. It took longer to get the air box unhooked from the throttle body than to actually diagnose the problem.

[texasmom]

Most cards today with  the OBDII computers will tell you what is wrong with them...The hard part is getting to what needs to be fixed under all the crap.

Exactly! TxDad didn't need the computer to tell him what was wrong, but there was just no way to get into the engine & change the part out.  That's got to be by design for the benefit of those other than the owner.

[VonMessa]

Exactly! TxDad didn't need the computer to tell him what was wrong, but there was just no way to get into the engine & change the part out.  That's got to be by design for the benefit of those other than the owner.

It's usually some engineer sitting at a computer running Pro-E or Solidworks, etc. 

Sittin there scratching his head and wondering where he can shoehorn the next component in at.

I will speak for all mechanics, pro and home-style....

We can show the engineers where to shove it sometimes   

[lasersailor184]

Most cards today with  the OBDII computers will tell you what is wrong with them.

For example, if I get a check engine light on my PT Cruiser, I just turn the key on/off 3 times and it spits uot a trouble code where the odometer is.

The hard part is getting to what needs to be fixed under all the crap.

As for the "specialty" tools, Ford has been notorious for needing "Motorcraft tool # X" for years, even for simple repairs/routine maintenance. 

Would that work for a 97 Jeep wrangler?

[SteveBailey]

The codes are nice.

They are nice, for the ignorant masses, no question.  I can listen to my car and tell you what's wrong.  *shrug*

[Mr No Name]

They are nice, for the ignorant masses, no question.  I can listen to my car and tell you what's wrong.  *shrug*

But ya just cant tell how far it is from a bay door, right???  *Ducks and Runs*  (Bad joke, i know...)

[EskimoJoe]

I sure did miss those things. Until I built this:
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

This is my tinker toy. Built the motor from the block up, redid the tranny, put in a dana 44 and 373's, upgraded the brakes,  etc. You can see the nitrous bottle in the back, just over the steering wheel.  I may have made a dinosaur, but it smokes and it's fun to work on.   

Needs silver or chrome rims and a carwash 

[SteveBailey]

But ya just cant tell how far it is from a bay door, right???  *Ducks and Runs*  (Bad joke, i know...)

      

[bj229r]

Most cards today with  the OBDII computers will tell you what is wrong with them.

For example, if I get a check engine light on my PT Cruiser, I just turn the key on/off 3 times and it spits uot a trouble code where the odometer is.

I was getting my 1962 Duoglide inspected the other day (annual required in VA) --It has a foot clutch, so noone at dealership has a clue as to how to ride it, so they just drag it behind the big door, and make sure brake light comes on with foot brake, then they complain about the 'blue dot' on the tail light--(was factory then, I always point out), . As I pass time on the picnic table waiting for them to pass the thing, I notice 3-4 fellows taking their new Evo's in for oil changes, etc (PAYING someone to change your BIKE oil? pu$$***) Anyhow, this one yuppie in particular complains how his seems to hesitate on accel , etc, and it has an annoying rattle (cant fix a RATTLE on a BIKE? pu$$***) The mechanic says he will have to put his dyna-whatever-it-is on the comPUTER to see whats wrong with it, and to come back in a few hours....Put a BIKE on a COMPUTER? Even HARLEY makes a bike so complicated ya need a COMPUTER to fix it? <insert 'good ol days' here> I keep 2 sets box wrenches--in case nut/bolt need attention at same time (ENGlish), a BIG wrench, in case rear wheel needs adjust, 2 plugs, 1 pair pliers, and a master link. Nothing else is required to service an older vehicle....now ya need @#$$@##$@ a Dell in your saddle bag...sigh

[SteveBailey]

Needs silver or chrome rims and a carwash 

heheh I think it was clean in those pics.... everyone  has chrome rims, I like the black ones... although I'm considering black chrome or even straight chrome for my next set. Those rims are 17's and for whatever reason, there aren't many 315 35 17 tires out there anymore.  I'll have to switch to 18's I fear.

[NOT]

you poor diluted fool(quote from the original batman )

the OBD2 system will not for the most part tell you or us in the field what exactly is wrong with your car. it steers you in the right direction. for instance, a P0401 for "insufficient EGR flow", is a very common code. would you like to tell me what's wrong with the vehicle with no further information than that please?  assume oooooo.......lets see.....99 ford F250 4.6L(or 5.4L) with automatic.

<<S>>

UMM.....sounds like a problem with the muffler bearing.




NOT

[CAP1]

But ya just cant tell how far it is from a bay door, right???  *Ducks and Runs*  (Bad joke, i know...)

OOOOOOOOOO MANNNNN........NOW YA DUN WENT AND DONE IT@!!!!!!