The bad thing about new vehicles

[texasmom]

You can't just pull out a wrench & fix them. They've got newfangled contraptions on them that are dealer-only just to get to them...  TxDad has always fixed our vehicles (because he's handy like that  ).  I'm glad he wasn't here this morning to see one of them towed away for a simple repair.  I got a feeling these newfangled cars of ours will be disposed of soon & go back to at least one older vehicle that he can tinker with... especially now that our boys are interested in tinkering.

[SD67]

Don't feel bad Mom, They an still be tinkered with, it just takes newfangled tools to tinker with that's all

[CAP1]

You can't just pull out a wrench & fix them. They've got newfangled contraptions on them that are dealer-only just to get to them...  TxDad has always fixed our vehicles (because he's handy like that  ).  I'm glad he wasn't here this morning to see one of them towed away for a simple repair.  I got a feeling these newfangled cars of ours will be disposed of soon & go back to at least one older vehicle that he can tinker with... especially now that our boys are interested in tinkering.

how new is it? most reputable private sector shops can help you with your car too. the computer systems aren't quite as complicated as the dealers would like you to think. granted, some such as bmw, audi, and higher end american cars have multiple computers networked together, but still not too hard to diagnose. remember, it's just an internal combustion engine under all that crap. all it needs is fuel, air spark, and compression.
 good luck!

<<S>>

[VonMessa]

Most cards today with  the OBDII computers will tell you what is wrong with them.

For example, if I get a check engine light on my PT Cruiser, I just turn the key on/off 3 times and it spits uot a trouble code where the odometer is.

The hard part is getting to what needs to be fixed under all the crap.

As for the "specialty" tools, Ford has been notorious for needing "Motorcraft tool # X" for years, even for simple repairs/routine maintenance. 

[SteveBailey]

I have a car in which I gutted all the new fangled stuff just  so I could tinker with it like an old fashioned hot rod. Txmom, I understand where you are coming from.  The new cars can be worked on but are put together(perhaps deliberately) in ways to discourage your averge home wrench turner.  As an example:  My mom's STS had a waterpump go bad.  In order to replace it, you had to take the intake off..... silly.

[CAP1]

I have a car in which I gutted all the new fangled stuff just  so I could tinker with it like an old fashioned hot rod. Txmom, I understand where you are coming from.  The new cars can be worked on but are put together(perhaps deliberately) in ways to discourage your averge home wrench turner.  As an example:  My mom's STS had a waterpump go bad.  In order to replace it, you had to take the intake off..... silly.

know what's funny?
i took an old car, and did the opposite. i took a 1978 fairmont futura, and ripped out the 6 cyl. auto, installed a 5.0L, with the full EEC IV control system. it now runs 12's in the 1/4, cruises 70-80mph at about 24-2600rpm, and averages 22-24mpg. best part, is that although it'll never be showcar quality, it DOES look as if ford built it like that.

<<S>>

[VonMessa]

Need a new radiator on a PT cruiser (damn deer  )?    Start taking off the bumper (then the oil cooler, tranny cooler, intercooler for turbo, then condenser)  ..........

You are absolutely right, Steve.

I had no less than THREE different "silencer" mechanisms in the air intake line to "quiet down" the sound of the air intake.  I want to hear the intake howl.  And whats with the fairy-sounding blow off valve?

The manufacturers are definitely trying to make things less "user accessible"  I don't mind as much anymore as the steel plate holding my arm together kinda precludes me from doing much wrenching these days.

And don't get me started on the "throw away" parts either.  Almost had to buy a new pair of lower control arms, just to get new bushings.  This was until I found an aftermarket  set of urathane lower control-arm bushings and pressed them in. myself. 

Most new autos = rubbish to work on.

[CAP1]

Most cards today with  the OBDII computers will tell you what is wrong with them.

you poor diluted fool(quote from the original batman )

the OBD2 system will not for the most part tell you or us in the field what exactly is wrong with your car. it steers you in the right direction. for instance, a P0401 for "insufficient EGR flow", is a very common code. would you like to tell me what's wrong with the vehicle with no further information than that please?  assume oooooo.......lets see.....99 ford F250 4.6L(or 5.4L) with automatic.

<<S>>

[Fulmar]

My part time job in college was working at Batteries Plus.  Some of the engineers for cars should be put in front of firing squads.  Early 00's Sebrings, Intrepeids (I think), and some other Chrysler sedan models required you to remove the front left tire to get to the battery to replace it.

Mid-Late 90's Chevy Lumina's or Grand Prixs have the battery undernearth the washer tank.

Not a fan of Audi's/BMW/Mercedes.  They like to put their batteries right up against the firewall in the center of the front end.  It makes for an aching back reaching over and lifting their large batteries out.

But if a dealer/car company isn't making a lot off selling their new car to you, they're making it in maintenance.

[CAP1]

My part time job in college was working at Batteries Plus.  Some of the engineers for cars should be put in front of firing squads.  Early 00's Sebrings, Intrepeids (I think), and some other Chrysler sedan models required you to remove the front left tire to get to the battery to replace it.

Mid-Late 90's Chevy Lumina's or Grand Prixs have the battery undernearth the washer tank.

Not a fan of Audi's/BMW/Mercedes.  They like to put their batteries right up against the firewall in the center of the front end.  It makes for an aching back reaching over and lifting their large batteries out.

But if a dealer/car company isn't making a lot off selling their new car to you, they're making it in maintenance.

some vw's in the pass. compartment under the rear seat. olds aurura under the rear seat too.

[SteveBailey]

know what's funny?
i took an old car, and did the opposite. i took a 1978 fairmont futura, and ripped out the 6 cyl. auto, installed a 5.0L, with the full EEC IV control system. it now runs 12's in the 1/4, cruises 70-80mph at about 24-2600rpm, and averages 22-24mpg. best part, is that although it'll never be showcar quality, it DOES look as if ford built it like that.

<<S>>

Cool. With all the stuff I  changed, my formerly high 13 second computer run  car is now in the mid 10's and a joy to tinker on.   

diluted? heheheh    deluded.   

[SteveBailey]

Need a new radiator on a PT cruiser (damn deer  )?    Start taking off the bumper (then the oil cooler, tranny cooler, intercooler for turbo, then condenser)  ..........

brutal

[VonMessa]

you poor diluted fool(quote from the original batman )

the OBD2 system will not for the most part tell you or us in the field what exactly is wrong with your car. it steers you in the right direction. for instance, a P0401 for "insufficient EGR flow", is a very common code. would you like to tell me what's wrong with the vehicle with no further information than that please?  assume oooooo.......lets see.....99 ford F250 4.6L(or 5.4L) with automatic.

<<S>>

You are correct.  It gets you in the ballpark, though.  With some computer savvy, one can lookup what the codes mean.  If you can't correctly diagnose the problem once you know what system the problem is in, then one should probably shut the hood and let someone who knows what they are doing take over.  The car will tell you where to start looking for the problem.  If one can't diagnose down to the faulty component, walk away, because you probably shouldn't be messing with it anyhow.  It will only make the "real" wrench benders' life that much harder.

As for those of you "in the field" (I was until I had to be reassembled like humpty-dumpty), does your flat-rate time increase as the repairs get more complicated as the engineers make your life more miserable?  Possibly, if you work for a dealer (and it's not a warranty repair)  Probably not, if you work at a mom & pop garage or all-purpose repair shop.  If you are paid hourly, but are not given any refreshers on the new tech. as it comes out, shame on your employer for wasting money.

The new computer stuff is only good for the new crap they add to the cars.

What happened to fuel/compression/spark and days of cars that you could climb under the hood to fix, sit on one fender and have a picnic lunch and radio sitting on the other one?

[VonMessa]

Cool. With all the stuff I  changed, my formerly high 13 second computer run  car is now in the mid 10's and a joy to tinker on.   

diluted? heheheh    deluded.   

Don't you miss actually changing something physical to make a difference?   

Like a cam, or set of gears in the rear.  "Honey, my Dana rear and new Isky cam finally arrived!!!!!!!!"  as opposed to "Oh look, an email came with a firmware upgrade for my car"

Also, don't you miss the gut-wrenching torque of say....   a 69' GTO with 400 cubic inches of raw power burning off the tread on your new Firestone redlines, or a good old fashioned Hemi Cuda breathing fire and sucking the gas down at gallons per mile.  Can you remember what the exhaust smell of 102 (or higher) pump gas (not VP racing fuel, but everyday gas) was like.    Like the finest perfume........

(For those of you who don;t know what I am talking about, you are too young to know what a real hot-rod is)

[SteveBailey]

Don't you miss actually changing something physical to make a difference?   

Like a cam, or set of gears in the rear.  "Honey, my Dana rear and new Isky cam finally arrived!!!!!!!!"  as opposed to "Oh look, an email came with a firmware upgrade for my car"

Also, don't you miss the gut-wrenching torque of say....   a 69' GTO with 400 cubic inches of raw power burning off the tread on your new Firestone redlines, or a good old fashioned Hemi Cuda breathing fire and sucking the gas down at gallons per mile.  Can you remember what the exhaust smell of 102 (or higher) pump gas (not VP racing fuel, but everyday gas) was like.    Like the finest perfume........

(For those of you who don;t know what I am talking about, you are too young to know what a real hot-rod is)

I sure did miss those things. Until I built this:



This is my tinker toy. Built the motor from the block up, redid the tranny, put in a dana 44 and 373's, upgraded the brakes,  etc. You can see the nitrous bottle in the back, just over the steering wheel.  I may have made a dinosaur, but it smokes and it's fun to work on.