Marksmanship Trouble

[shotgunneeley]

Ok, I am new at this game and I know that the old cleche "practice makes perfect" is the #1 tip, but I just can't seem to get steady on targets. I have a ST290pro twisty stick that seems to be a little stiff and touchy when it comes to making fine adjustments, so an upgrade in hardware is probably called for.

I spend most of my time flying with my squad mates in B-17's, so gunning at a target whos coming straight down my 6 with little manuevering is almost no problem killing. However, when a more experienced fighter comes zooming in from 9oclock high trying to gut me out then drawing a fine bead and leading the target becomes more crucial.

Dogfighting is another story. I spend a lot of time with offline practice missions and usually dont have a problem with out fighting the AI, but keeping a steady platform in which to shoot down the enemy (usually from a P-51D) is still a problem. I keep having the trouble with keeping the target from disappearing under the crosshairs into the blindspot that the fuselage creates. So in essence, I'm shooting blindly at the target where I think it will come across my line of fire. I have my convergence set on 600, 500 and 400 from outer guns to inward, so I might need to tighten up my grouping more.

My question is it the lack of a more smoother joystick system or is it some calibration that I have neglected to settle within the game thats keeping me from being steady? I also feel that I need to add that I've tried to zoom in on my crosshairs, but that just makes me feel tunnel visioned. And I've tried to zoom out, but that makes it harder to see where I'm aiming. P.S. Im looking into getting a STX52 with throttle and rudder pedals, so with a few more buttons I'll be able to trim myself in flight. Thanks for any help.

[Motherland]

You're firing far too far out. I usually hold my fire until D200. Actually, usually, I won't line up until D200, and then start aiming once I've reached that benchmark... so I'd be even closer.

[BaldEagl]

That depends a lot on personal preference.  If I'm following a target in a straight run I might start firing as early as 600-800.  If I'm in a close knife fight then 200 is about as far away as I'm going to try to get.  My preferred range in all rides and all types of fights is ~400.

I set all my convergences to a single point.  I want as many bullets as possible hitting in the same spot.  This again is personal preference.

As to distances, I set some gun packages to 650 and others to 400 depending on ballistic qualities and what I want to use that plane for.  Generally anything .50 cal and over is at 650 with the exception of the Japanese and Russian cannons.  Everything else is at 400.  Mixed packages (i.e. ealier Spits with 4x.303's and 20mm Hispanos or BF109's with 2x7.7mm and a single 20 or 30mm) can go either way.  In those examples, I set the Spits to 400 and the 109's to 650.

You shots are going to be unstable if:

1.  You diving too fast and the plane wants to pull up or is in a stressed state.  You need to trim down or slow down.
2.  You are too slow and the nose starts to wobble.  You need to relax the stick and pick up a touch of speed, or drop flaps momentarily.

As to zoom, I have zoom toggle mapped to my stick buttons.  Use default zoom (control Z) which is about 50-60% and only use it when you can keep the target in sight using it.  If the target moves off-screen, toggle back to normal view.  I ususally won't fire a shot unless I've got the target in my zoomed in pipper.

Finally, patience makes perfect.  If you've got the skills to get behind and stay behind your target, there's no need to take low probability shots.  Even in a furball, as long as both of you are turning and dicing it up, remain patient.  The shot will come.  If you have to break off for another target or due to a threat, remain patient.  I learned this by spraying off all my ammo on guys on low probability shots and only THEN did the perfect shot opportunity arise.  It took a long time to sink in. 

BTW, lag pusuit, not lead pursuit is great for this.  If you insist on using lead pursuit to aquire a snapshot, roll one wing down and move your head over and up to get a sighting, then, just as the target is about to break across your nose move back to normal view and fire.  Even when he's out of view, you can't allow him to be out of view.  Timing is critical and if you don't know where he is how can you time your shot?

Hope that helps.

[Rolex]

Hi and welcome to the game.

Waiting until 200 yards is a little extreme and I would not recommend that at all.

Here are a few quick tips:

1. You can try adding a little damping or increasing deadband slightly to your controller settings. Clipboard>Options>Controls>Map Controllers

2. I would recommend bringing all .50 cal gun convergence together to one point, not spread out, to increase the damage to spot you hit. Start at 350 yards and try that for a while. You can throw up a target at 400 yards directly to your north while in flight by typing .target 400 into any radio text and practice. Close the target by typing .target 0  Don't forget the initial DOT - that indicates it is command, not text. There is also an option to toggle a lead-computing gunsight off line and in the training arena to help you develop the sight picture for many shots.

3. Zooming in to fire is player preference. There are good and bad points to it. Remember that your guns always fire at the center of your screen in a forward view. You can adjust a "Look Forward View" for the 8 NUMPAD key that slides the canopy to the side using arrows and Page Up/Down keys and allows you to look down the side of the fuselage. Use roll to position yourself to see and you can place the mouse cursor in the center of your gunsight in default forward view. All rounds will fire at cursor.

4. There are more in-depth articles for all the topics you mentioned at the trainers' website in my signature.

[CAP1]

You're firing far too far out. I usually hold my fire until D200. Actually, usually, I won't line up until D200, and then start aiming once I've reached that benchmark... so I'd be even closer.

you're talking about defending your buffs? i cannot wait that long, as by the time the bad guy is at 200, i've already lost at least 1 drone if he's any good. i've also heard that the buffs converge at 600 yds....so at 800, if he fires, i kinda try to ""tickle" him and get a bead.by the time he's at 600,i've got a good bead, and open up..and it is especially easy if they're on my 6 like the 3 the other night.
 one piece of advice i can offer some of the newbies.......don't think that because the ju88 has small guns that you can simply park on their 6 and shoot em down. you can't. they'll tear ya apart.

[Hap]

Get the dampening thing going for you and the deadband too.  Fire closer not further.

And give it much practice and patience. 

Ignore me, I was a lousy shot. 

Look up the guys at the top of fighter scores and check their hit percentages.  Find them; fly with them; ask for some help.  But nothing of the "I want to be as good as you right now" stuff.

[The Fugitive]

You post in a lot of threads with a lot of questions. This should give you a clue as to this game...... there is a LOT to learn 

It can be very frustrating, "patience" is more the word than "practice". You've only been doing this for a few months, where a lot of these guys have been doing it for years. As one of those guys that has been here years, I know HOW to do it, I just don't have the time to put it into practice.

Damping I always thought screwed up my aim more than helped. I would adjust for my shot, but the damping would delay the more. By the time the delay was done I'd already be adjusting again, so my nose was all over the place. For me, I set my damping as low as I can without any "spikes" showing from my hardware. With CH stuff this is pretty much on the bottom, with yours you might have to push them up a bit.

Scaling is what helped the most, well that and learning not to get TOO excited when I was in close for my shot  Scaling is very much a personal thing. You have to be real honest with yourself and adjust it accordingly. If your a stick jerker you need more of an arc, if your very smooth and easy on the stick you need less.  The idea here is to make it smooth and accurate. If you pull back "a bit" on the stick, your nose should only raise " a bit".

Once your stick is set to where its a smooth action between your hand and the view on screen you have to learn how to fight. In a buff as a gunner you only need to learn how to lead your shots. Have a friend make passes on you in the TA and turn on your "lead computing sites" you'll be surprised how much you have to lead them when they are coming in on slashing attacks. In fighters, its all in where you point your plane. "Following" a guy isn't going to get you the kill that often, going to the place he WILL be and shooting there is going to get you the kills. To do that you have to know what the planes can do. The idea is to throw your rounds out there to a spot in space and have the bad guy run into them.

Good luck, and keep at it. Have patience young grasshopper, you'll get there !

[Adonai]

It can be very frustrating, "patience" is more the word than "practice". You've only been doing this for a few months, where a lot of these guys have been doing it for years. As one of those guys that has been here years, I know HOW to do it, I just don't have the time to put it into practice.

After 5 years this statement is VERY true even today for me, I fly a me109 with one 20mm in the nose and most likely a pair of 8mm cowling machine guns I never fire, only the single 20mm with 200 rounds.

Yes Accuracy takes PRACTICE Yes I go through the extreme of waiting 200 behind someone before I fire most of the time..
I will fire at 400 if I have a decent shot, or even 600. So yes I trust my aim that much to fire outside my normal comfort zone of 2-400.
I still miss alot of shots I say "should" of hit, it just takes patience and practice. One thing that can hurt your aim is switching planes often, You go from wing mounted to nose mounted, aiming can be a serious issue. Nose mounted guns dont need convergence, a good 350-375 convergence is just fine, I still can hit targets at 1000 out if needed in rare cases someone is AFK And leveled out.

[Adonai]

http://www.mediafire.com/?thlqix5an9j

Here's a typical run for me in a furball area, im flying a me109g6 - 2x 13mm in the nose and 1x 20mm with 200 rounds

notice im tapping trigger, and not holding it down unless im scoring hits, only 200 rounds - and it goes quick.

[Max]

. Im looking into getting a STX52 with throttle and rudder pedals, so with a few more buttons I'll be able to trim myself in flight. Thanks for any help.

Welcome aboard. A steady non-spiking joystick will help you steady your ammo stream, as will the aforementioned addition of damping & deadband. Before pluncking out your money on an X52, do a forum search. Many folks who used both the X52 and a CH Fighterstick or CH Combatstick will tell you the CH gear is smoother. You'll spend more initially for the CH set-up but it will last you forever. The Saitek peds, IMHO are just as good, maybe a bit sturdier, than the CH peds. Best place to shop for CH is www.provantage.com

Good luck 

[PFactorDave]

Like The Fugitive said, hitting the TA and turning the lead computing site on is very enlightening. 

[shotgunneeley]

one piece of advice i can offer some of the newbies.......don't think that because the ju88 has small guns that you can simply park on their 6 and shoot em down. you can't. they'll tear ya apart.

After a bomb run the other night with a couple of my squad mates we were RTB'n when we spotted a formation of JU88's. We were in B-17's with a little bit of height above him, so we decided to nose down and attack him from his six. He must have been AFK because we ripped him to shreds with our nose turretts and he never fired a shot. 

Yeah Max I've been looking into both the CH and the X-52 sticks. I hear good things about both and since I'm a current Saitek user and it is a bit cheaper I was leaning towards X-52. I dont really need the high dollar CH stick since I'm kind of a "weekend warrior" and not likely to put a stick through much strenuous use. (My $19.99 walmart ST290 is going on two years without a hitch.)

Yall misunderstood me if you think I'm frustrated and on the edge of giving up. I know this is a complex game and that mad skills aren't born overnight. Its just that I've had a lot of experience with other fighter games where I can get on someones six and make 50 hits without causing any damage to his plane. Then someone turns around and makes a quick burst off the hip and blows me outa the sky. Now THAT is frustrating! Everyone's been a great help and I'll keep on at it. 

[evenhaim]

Here are some films of leading with 30mms
http://www.mediafire.com/?g2y4tgojg21

http://www.mediafire.com/?je3ngxjtm2l

http://www.mediafire.com/?dgj9nutbxe1

http://www.mediafire.com/?bjomnmteg30

http://www.mediafire.com/?xezxotmxlns 
 
 

[shotgunneeley]

This question kind of comes under the same category without making a totally new thread so here it goes. When not in the cockpit, I was wanting to program my mouse to be able to aim and fire, such as in a bomber gun turret or in a vehicle MG instead of using the joystick. I was able to program the fire buttons and zoom in/out to the mouse using mode 3, but for some reason the x & y axi of the mouse won't aim the gun. I saw an older thread where this was impossible, so is it still like that?

[stephen waldron]

   Hold onto the joystick really tight with two hands while you're lining up the target.  Helps me eliminate jerkiness.  But it's intensely stressfull.  I can only do a couple of flights a day..  and I have to spend the rest of the night medicating myself.  LOL.  Please.   Don't take this post seriously.  It's meant as a joke, by someone who experienced the same thing four months ago in the beginning.   
   You'll work it out.  It's largely a technical problem with joystck adjustment, but gaining experience with leading targets and not second guessing every small movement of the gunsight helps too.   Later you'll be adjusting your joystick settings again, because it feels too sluggish and isn't responsive enough.