Neutered 109F?

[macleod01]

Im curious here, and I know you gentlemen and geltleladies are going to be getting annoyed by me asking stupid questions like this, but im would appreciate an answer so I thought Id ask the largest resource I have, and that is AH. So here I go.

Why is the 109F seemingly weaker than the E? I understand that it rolls better and is faster, but it only has the one 20mm with the two 7.95, while the Emil has two 20mms alongside the 7.95's. By my calculations, if your going for a quick kill, its better to take the Emil. Yet the Fritz is a later version? Im confused at this. Why give up killing power for slight speed and roll rate?

Anyone care to be patient enough to answer the question without calling me a Noob? Ive been playing for nearly a year, so I no longer class myself as a newb, but I have a few gaps in my knowledge which I would like to fill in. Your time is much appreciated.

[Motherland]

They're not the same cannons.

The Bf.109E has the crappy Oerlikon MG/FF 20mm cannon, which has a low muzzle velocity resulting in poor trajectory, and relatively poor hitting power. Also, the MG/FF is limited to 60 rounds per gun due to the fact that it feeds from a drum magazine instead of a belt.

The Bf.109F4, like other later German aircraft, is equipped with the Mauser MG151/20, which has better hitting power and higher muzzle velocity than the MG/FF, as well as feeding from a belt meaning that you can take 200 rounds per gun instead of 60. And that's 200 rounds of more effective, easier to aim ammunition.

Couple that with the fact that the Freidrich is faster, rolls much better, is more aerodynamic (when coupled with the increased weight and engine power this means much better energy retention) and maintains control at higher speeds than the Emil, and the answer is quite clear.

[macleod01]

ahhhh thanks Motherland. Thats an easy answer to a question I had wondered about. I thought it was going to be something like that, but thought Id ask anyway. Thanks again

[Motherland]

ahhhh thanks Motherland. Thats an easy answer to a question I had wondered about. I thought it was going to be something like that, but thought Id ask anyway. Thanks again

No problem.

[macleod01]

With an avatar like yours, Id be worried if you didn't know lol

[Motherland]

To go along with your point, Adolf Galland, I believe it was, wasn't happy with the firepower of the new 109F when it arrived. Being a famous ace (and future General der Flieger), he had both (if I remember correctly) a 109F with the double MG/FF wing load out of the 109E and a 109F with 13mm MG131's replacing the 7.92mm MG17's in the cowl (this would become standard starting with the 109G5).
I may be wrong, my memory of this is pretty vague.

[macleod01]

now thats big firepower lol

[Delirium]

Imho, the 109F was probably the best 109 to come out of the war... it had enough power for its weight/size and it had plenty of power compared to other aircraft of its time.

In AH, a well flown 109F can be a real handful... but yes, the guns are a little light.

[Shane]

the day they removed gondies from the 109f loadout options was a tragic one.

but, yeah, the 109f can rock.

 

[Adonai]

Honestly think gondolas are a waste unless you plan to intercept buffs only, however the 109f gun package is enough to take down 3 b17's without any problems, and if your aim is decent and you fire at 200 or less you can easily get 4-5 kills without a problem.

[DaveJ]

In AH, a well flown 109F can be a real handful... \

Isn't that the truth. Had a 5 minute 1 v 1 fight with Humes in his 109F and me in my 38 today. We ended up with near stalling scissors back and forth and turn fighting all around. 109F in the correct hands will give any plane trouble..

[Masherbrum]

Imho, the 109F was probably the best 109 to come out of the war... it had enough power for its weight/size and it had plenty of power compared to other aircraft of its time.

In AH, a well flown 109F can be a real handful... but yes, the guns are a little light.

It's the only 109 I'll fly.   It is not only great, folks think "easy kill", it usually has them in the tower.

[Lusche]

It's a nasty surpise to all Spit & N1K pilots out there that just see the 109 icon and think all they need is to turn... 

[Saurdaukar]

Why give up killing power for slight speed and roll rate?

Because hitting power is useless unless you can bring it to bear.

The 109F, by and large, represents the ultimate 'pure' 109 fighter and, while the successful deployment of a single hub 20mm may prove difficult in snapshot situations when compared to two wing-mounted 20mm's, the airplane, itself, will allow you to position yourself in an 'impossible to miss' position with an extra 10 to 15 seconds of patience.

This, of course, ignores the superiority of the 151 (109F4 20mm) over the FF (109E4 20mm).

[Urchin]

Im curious here, and I know you gentlemen and geltleladies are going to be getting annoyed by me asking stupid questions like this, but im would appreciate an answer so I thought Id ask the largest resource I have, and that is AH. So here I go.

Why is the 109F seemingly weaker than the E? I understand that it rolls better and is faster, but it only has the one 20mm with the two 7.95, while the Emil has two 20mms alongside the 7.95's. By my calculations, if your going for a quick kill, its better to take the Emil. Yet the Fritz is a later version? Im confused at this. Why give up killing power for slight speed and roll rate?

Anyone care to be patient enough to answer the question without calling me a Noob? Ive been playing for nearly a year, so I no longer class myself as a newb, but I have a few gaps in my knowledge which I would like to fill in. Your time is much appreciated.

I wouldn't feel too badly, there were LW officers asking the same question when the F model came out.  Basically there were two schools of thought on that.  The first school felt like the 1 cannon should be enough to kill a fighter (which is what they were facing in 1940-41), and if you were missing with one cannon, you'd be missing with two.  The other school felt like 1x20mm and 2x7.92mm just wasn't enough firepower for the rank and file.

In AH, the MG-FF is such a steaming pile of crap that 2x7.92mm is better than 2x20mm MG-FF and 2x7.92mm because of the weight savings.