Author Topic: Icons AGAIN  (Read 454 times)

funked

  • Guest
Icons AGAIN
« on: March 02, 2000, 10:58:00 PM »
It would be nice to have some element of surprise.

It would be nice to shoot at planes instead of 100 foot tall letters.

Please make the icons smaller, a la "Brand W".

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Icons AGAIN
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2000, 11:41:00 PM »
<steps to window>

"A ticket on the anti-icon bandwagon, please. Front row center, if possible."
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline LLv34_Camouflage

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2189
      • http://www.virtualpilots.fi/LLv34
Icons AGAIN
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2000, 02:04:00 AM »
And put them below the planes!

And shorter range!
CO, Lentolaivue 34
Brewster's in AH!
"How about the power to kill a Yak from 200 yards away - with mind bullets!"

Offline leonid

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 239
Icons AGAIN
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2000, 03:53:00 AM »
This game is a complex flight sim, requiring months of playing just to reach competent levels.  Anything to 'dumb-down' AH would be short-changing the quality of the simulation, and be in conflict with the interests of the majority of the present playerbase.  Knowing the kind of work that Hitech & Pyro have put out, it would be highly improbable that the depth and complexity of AH's engine would ever be compromised.

Now, given the quality of the AH engine and the game, I ask this: why have icons that are not in synch with the level of this game?  Of course, whether the icons are on the same level of competency as the game is debatable to some extent, but I do feel that the existing playerbase would be accepting of icons that allowed for a more accurate simulation of air combat in WWII.  As many historical references point out, a vast proportion of combat aircraft shot down in WWII never knew they were coming under attack.  Thus, one could say that there is a conflict of interests when a game as complex as Aces High contains an ID element that hinders a realistic implementation of the WWII aerial combat experience.

That being said, if reduced icons were to be implemented, then any new players to Aces High would be at an even more severe disadvantage than at present.  One possible measure to lessen that unfortunate condition would be to allow new subscribers to use larger icons for a set period of play time, say two month's worth of playtime hours.

In any case, I would urge HTC to seriously explore any and all ideas for reduced icons, thereby allowing Aces High to better represent a simulation of the WWII air war experience within an online environment.




------------------
leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA

"Our cause is just.  The enemy will be crushed.  Victory will be ours."
ingame: Raz

Offline JoeMud

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Icons AGAIN
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2000, 07:55:00 AM »
Icons,Icons,we dont need no stinking Icons man!


No icons for bad guys but we need um for freinds since you cant tell by looking at there plane whos side there on.


---------------------
 

[This message has been edited by JoeMud (edited 03-03-2000).]

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27260
Icons AGAIN
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2000, 08:00:00 AM »
ICONS are good for newbies, suck for vets, I suggest all ICONS in the SEA be disabled.

Agree, LETTERS TOO BIG ON ICONS!

------------------
Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen"
 
"Opfer mussen gebracht werden"
— Otto Lilienthal

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-03-2000).]

Offline Jinx

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Icons AGAIN
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2000, 08:15:00 AM »

I used to be a proponent of a totally icon free world, but after years of flying in the icon free two sided ‘historical arena’ in warbirds I have to concede that ACM suffers with no icons at all. There are many problems with the lack of resolution on a PC screen that have to be compensated for and the problems are much worse for a new player. So I think that even though some kind of icon system might be needed in a general arena, the aim must be to make it as unintrusive (eh, is that a real word?) as possible.

This is basically an old idea I posted on a WB forum long ago..

How about if we got rid of the range numbers and instead put in a line centered under the plane. The line would start as a single pixel at 10000 yards or so and then grow with one pixel for every 1000 yards closer.  Have a second line just under the first that works the same but start as a single pixel at a 1000 yards and grow one pixel for every 100 yards closer.

I’d also like to see the plane type/id translucent, starting at nothing at 10000 yards and going to solid (what we have now) at 500 yards. And all icons should be centered under the plane so you can’t pull lead and shoot someone masked under the nose guided by the icon.

Fire away..  

  -Jinx
  The Flying Pigs


Offline mx22

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Icons AGAIN
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2000, 09:06:00 AM »
Here is a question to all those who wants no icons...

Considering that each and every country has the same set of planes, how would you identify planes from your country from planes of other countries. More, even if countries had different planes, with 800x600 resolution you simply have NO IDEA what the plane is until you are really close. In real life, pilots most of the time new if there are any friendlies flying around, but I don't see how this is going to be possible in the game.

mx22

ezrust

  • Guest
Icons AGAIN
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2000, 09:14:00 PM »
If there were a way to have no icons I would be all for it.  However, simply removing the icons would completely transform the game into something less fun.  You would see a spec on the horizon and fly towards it for five minutes... friendly.  Another spec, fly towards it... friendly.  The entire game would be spent on searching for and flying towards every spec you see.  Yes, it would be more realistic.  But I don't want to spend four hours flying around making no contacts 90% of the time... like it was in real life.  A game needs to balance reality with ACTION.
Now please don't take this post as a defence of icons, I hate them.  And I really want STEALTH to be a part of the game- impossible with the icon system currently in use. It is also not really possible to disengage- dive away and disapear- with the current icon system.  I would suggest making friendly icons appear fairly far away (I would think that in WWII you usually had an idea of friendly activity in the area) but make the cons incon appear very close and make the icons themselves fairly small.  I really like the icon system in WB Historical Arena.  
The only other thing I can think of would be to have the planes apear larger than they do and paint them in obvious schemes (i.e. half the plane red).
Of course, the coolest thing would be to have two countries, Axis and Allies and fly historical planes.  If I'm Axis and I spot a P38 there is no question as to enemy or friendly.  

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Icons AGAIN
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2000, 10:20:00 PM »
Well,this topic is always coming around but it boils down to one question, really.

Is there a better way to do friend and foe?

Basically, we're using the 10 year old Air Warrior system with few changes.

I think there IS a better way and I've read many suggestions on these and other boards that seem worth trying.

THERE is the challenge. To get the powers that be in an ACM game to give it a try.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Lephturn

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1200
      • http://lephturn.webhop.net
Icons AGAIN
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2000, 06:47:00 AM »
Excellent Jinx!

That system is one I would like to see tested.  I think it gives the player the clues they need, but not too much info.

Jinx's suggestion gets my vote.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
 http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/
 

"MY P-47 is a pretty good ship
And she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip
I was thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip
Always got me through so far
Well they can ship me all over this great big world
But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl
I'm taking her home with me one day, sir
Soon as we win this war"
 - Steve Earl

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 03-04-2000).]

Offline danish

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 440
Icons AGAIN
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2000, 07:05:00 AM »
What Jinx wrote.
No icons simply dosnt work in our world of pixels.

danish

Offline Minotaur

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 130
Icons AGAIN
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2000, 08:54:00 AM »
Make them smaller, move them, slice and dice them.  Spindle, fold and mutilate them.  Just don't LOSE them.

------------------
Mino
The Wrecking Crew
Trainer

funked

  • Guest
Icons AGAIN
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2000, 09:35:00 AM »
I didn't say lose them completely.  At some ranges I think we need a range cue, because what is a blob in AH would be a recognizable plane shape in RL.  And of course I am all for using icons for IFF purposes.  Even in WB historical scenarios we retain that.

But the fact remains that spotting the planes is far too easy.

Offline Dinger

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1705
Icons AGAIN
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2000, 10:49:00 AM »
Make them smaller, reduce the range at which they appear, allow us to adjust their brightness.  There are three things that would help immensely.