Author Topic: Cloverleaf  (Read 4866 times)

Offline TonyJoey

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Cloverleaf
« on: June 18, 2008, 09:12:34 AM »
What exactly is this move? Heard it being said somewhere today hmmmmmm..... :uhoh

Offline Blooz

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Re: Cloverleaf
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2008, 09:17:39 AM »
Series of High Yo-Yo's , I think.
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Offline Soulyss

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Re: Cloverleaf
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2008, 10:02:28 AM »
I forget exactly what it is, I believe it could be describes as a turn with variable G loading.  The pilot pulls G to get turn rate and get the nose around quickly, but in doing so loses E which degrades the turn rate, When he gets to slow he relaxes on the turn and probably goes a little nose low and builds the E back then repeats the hard turn. 

The idea being that looking at a 360 turn from the top it would appear to have a similar shape to the cloverleaf if that makes sense. 

That was my understanding at least it's probably not a complete description, I'm mostly just trying to bump the thread  till someone else can come along, if I recall correctly I think it was either Murdr or AKAK that was telling me about it.
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Cloverleaf
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2008, 10:21:48 AM »
It's not a know acm as far as I know.  I've never heard of it.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Cloverleaf
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2008, 12:12:49 PM »
It's not a know acm as far as I know.  I've never heard of it.

Just because you've never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist as a maneuver.  Just sayin'.


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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Cloverleaf
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2008, 12:20:27 PM »
Just because you've never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist as a maneuver.  Just sayin'.


ack-ack

12 years around these games, Robert Shaw, other publications, articles and BBs posts you'de think I might have run into it by now.  Just sayin'.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Cloverleaf
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2008, 12:29:58 PM »
12 years around these games, Robert Shaw, other publications, articles and BBs posts you'de think I might have run into it by now.  Just sayin'.

Surprised then you haven't come across it in your years of playing.  I know I've come across it during the 15 years I've been playing these games.  Heck, I'm sure you can easily find it by doing a search of these forums, if the latest forum glitch didn't delete the archives or just type Cloverleaf ACM in Google and search away.  Just sayin'.


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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Cloverleaf
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2008, 12:56:58 PM »
Surprised then you haven't come across it in your years of playing.  I know I've come across it during the 15 years I've been playing these games.  Heck, I'm sure you can easily find it by doing a search of these forums, if the latest forum glitch didn't delete the archives or just type Cloverleaf ACM in Google and search away.  Just sayin'.


ack-ack
]

That might be why in my original post I said "as far as I know".  Since you do claim to know it, then please describe this obscure manouver (NADA on a Google search) Mr. Holier than Thou.
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Offline 2bighorn

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Re: Cloverleaf
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2008, 01:02:54 PM »
That might be why in my original post I said "as far as I know".  Since you do claim to know it, then please describe this obscure manouver (NADA on a Google search) Mr. Holier than Thou.

It's not obscure but 'combination maneuver'.


From Air Force "T-38 PRECISION AEROBATICS" manual:

204.
CLOVERLEAF
a. Description
The Cloverleaf maneuver combines the first half of a Barrel Roll with the last half of a Loop.
b. General
This maneuver combines the smooth coordinated rolling control of the Barrel Roll and the pull
control of the basic Loop. It will help develop your timing, planning and coordination. You will
start with one (one of the four petals) of this maneuver at a time only until you are introduced to
the Combination Maneuver, after which you may do four series back to back (for a full four-leaf
clover). You must keep clearing yourself throughout the entire series. Review the Description
and General paragraphs for both the Barrel Roll and the Loop in the Contact FTI.
c. Procedures
(1) Transition to aerobatic cruise and complete the Aerobatic Checklist.
Commence a clearing turn and roll out perpendicular to a section line. Pick a prominent
reference point on the horizon 90o to either side of the nose, in the direction you intend to
perform the maneuver.
(2) Commence the maneuver by smoothly raising the nose while keeping the wings
level. As the exhaust stacks pass the horizon, roll and pull so that the nose travels around in an
arcing path towards the selected 90E checkpoint. After 45E of turn the angle of bank should be
90E and the nose will be at its highest point during the maneuver (approximately 55­60 degrees
above the horizon).
(3) Continue rolling the aircraft at a constant rate until in a wings level, inverted
attitude, heading directly at the 90E reference point on the horizon. Your nose should be
slightly above the horizon and the airspeed should be between 90 and 100 knots. Fly the
aircraft through the inverted position, stopping the roll at wings level.
(4) Tilt your head back and visually locate the opposite horizon. Correct with
aileron as necessary to maintain the wings parallel to the horizon. Check the nose in relation to
the section line (opposite from your 90E reference point) while correcting for directional
deviations as necessary by adjusting the rudder inputs.
(5) Airspeed will reach its slowest point at the top of the loop. The greatest amount
of right rudder input will therefore be required at this point in order to maintain balanced flight.
Maintain positive G-loading and wings parallel to the horizon.
(6) Allow the nose to fall through the opposite horizon, adjusting the amount of aft
stick pressure to maintain a constant pitch rate. Fly the aircraft's nose along the section line,
relaxing right rudder pressure as airspeed is quickly regained.
(7) Continue to relax right rudder pressure as the airspeed increases in the dive and
smoothly increase aft stick pressure as necessary to maintain a constant pitch rate. The recovery
will again require approximately 3.5 Gs, so remember to resume the AGSM. Quickly scan the
altimeter during recovery in order to return to straight and level flight at approximately the same
altitude and airspeed, but offset 270E from the original heading, tracking along your section
line.
(8) Commence the next "leaf" (if applicable) as described above. As you recover
from the even-numbered maneuvers, you will fly perpendicular (vice parallel) across your
section line.


Cloverleaf applies to AHII as well. Best example is "Dedalos merge". Flat merge turn -> half barrel roll -> half loop

Offline humble

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Re: Cloverleaf
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2008, 01:07:34 PM »
A "cloverleaf" is a variable turn where the pilot is balancing a number of variables to maximize an attempt at angular gain. By alternately tightening and loosening the turn (and potentially using hi/low yoyo's) he's trying to eat into a cons angles. This tactic is normally employed by a P-38 vs a plane like a spitfire where the lack of torque and variable flaps can help to counter the spitties better turn rate. It's actual merit is debatable since its really dependent on the relitive skill level of the pilots involved.

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Offline humble

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Re: Cloverleaf
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2008, 01:09:26 PM »
Very interesting bighorn and completely different then any context I've seen "cloverleaf" in...normally its some flavor of what I describe above...

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Offline 2bighorn

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Re: Cloverleaf
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2008, 01:14:45 PM »
Very interesting bighorn and completely different then any context I've seen "cloverleaf" in...normally its some flavor of what I describe above...
Well, you could do simplified cloverleaf with combination of 270 degrees high yoyos.

Offline 633DH98

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Re: Cloverleaf
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2008, 03:53:47 PM »
DecoyDuc  2 Nov 2008 - 16 Nov 2008  RIP

Offline Murdr

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Re: Cloverleaf
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2008, 04:36:27 PM »
BaldEagl, the cloverleaf is central to an old WWII era mock dogfight tale.  I'm also surprised you've never came across it before.

Just like other composite maneuvers though, you only persist with it so long as the bogie is in the position for it to be effective.  That's why there is a rolling scissors thread every other week in here.  As soon as one of the two pilots is out of position, the rolling scissors are over.  Most of the time, that is only one or two revolutions.  You only get long rolling scissors fights with equal pilots, both making the right adjustments to their speed, barrel radius, and helix angle.  As soon as someone makes a mistake, it's no longer a rolling scissors fight.  Hence it's hard for newer players to get experience with that sort of maneuver, because when the other plane is out of position, you stop doing it :)

Offline TonyJoey

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Re: Cloverleaf
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2008, 10:09:26 AM »