Author Topic: CPU cooling adventures...  (Read 2542 times)

Offline Fulmar

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CPU cooling adventures...
« on: June 19, 2008, 12:13:51 AM »
I just put an Arctic Freezer 7 (from stock HSF) and reapplied Arctic Silver 5 on my non-oc'd E6400.  I haven't reached the 200 hours burn in time (maybe 150 or so now) for the Silver yet...but I haven't registered any temperatures changes in my CPU or Core temps.  Before on stock HSF, I was getting high 30's to low 40's Idle CPU temps (non-core) and high 40's to low 50's core temps.  Add about 10-12C on each for load temps.

I'm still getting the same temps...

Now I do have a lot of stuff in my case and the case design isn't the greatest.  Especially for air intake in the front as the HD cage sits behind the front intake fan (see pic below).  The northbride passive heatsink is one flaw of the Asus P5N-E SLI board.  It features no fan.  I've made my own that does a good job.  The chipset runs about 50C (surface on the heatsink) without a fan and about 5-8C cooler when using 2 40mm fans (homemade!) attach on top of the heatsink.
Specs
Intel E6400
Asus P5N-E SLI board 650i Nvidia chipset
8800 GTS 640mb
X-FI Fatality
USB expansion PCI card
DVD-ROM
DVD-RW
2 x 250gb Maxtor's (run about 38-40C on surface)
3.5" Memory card reader
600W Xclio Greatpower PSU

Cooling
Front 80mm Intake
Side Window 120mm Intake
Rear 120mm Exhaust
Top 800mm Exhaust
2 x 40mm Chipset fans
Arctic Freezer 7
Arctic Silver 5
PSU 140mm exhaust fan (on the bottom of PSU directly above the CPU)

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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: CPU cooling adventures...
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2008, 12:39:32 AM »
When I first built my system my temps were pretty low (27-28C idle and under 50C loaded).  Since a BIOs update to correct a video corruption problem it seems like my temps went up.  Now I run mid 30's idle and mid 50's at load.  It's also summer now and the ambient room temp is higher (70F+ vs 68F) so I'm sure that's part of it.  Coming out of AH I'm still always under 50C.

At stock settings I can run Prime95 at 100% CPU load and hold temps under 60C, but as soon as I bump my FSB to 1600 for a mild 3.2 Gig overclock (from 2.66 Gig) I'll run over 60C.  Normally, I'll stop Prime if I hit 61-62C.  I've got my fan set to 1% at 27C and 100% at 57C and it, of course, varies in speed between those settings.

This is all with a stock Intel heatsink/fan and stock Intel thermal paste.

I bought some Arctic Silver 5 this week and I'm thinking about trying to re-seat the heatsink/fan on Friday.  I don't really need to but I'd also really like to get a little more out of the CPU without having to worry about heat.  I'm guessing that I have a small air pocket somewhere on top of the CPU.

I do have a northbridge fan set at 100% (~40C) and I'm using Riva Tuner to hold my GPU fan at 70% (under 50C).  Like you, my front fan blows across the HD cages and I have 3 HD's in the way.

Specs:

Coolermaster Cavalier
EVGA NVidia NForce 780i
Intel E6750 Conroe 2.66Ghz
Kingston HyperX DDR2 800 2x1Gb
EVGA 8800 GTS G92 512
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro
PC Power & Cooling S75QB 750W PSU
Seagate Barracuda 250 Gb SATA HD
Seagate 200 Gb ATA HD
Seagate 160 Gb ATA HD
Asus SATA 20x DVD+R DVD Burner
Asus SATA DVD-ROM
Microsoft Windows XP Pro With SP2C
LG 22" 2ms Widescreen LCD
Klipsch Promedia 78 watts 2.1 Speaker
« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 12:44:05 AM by BaldEagl »
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: CPU cooling adventures...
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2008, 05:16:47 AM »
This is the heatsink/CPU fan I use on my system, Xigmatek HDT-S1283.  Works great, keeps the CPU nice and cool and very quiet.



In addition to the HDT heatsink, I also have 1 80mm fan as a front intake, 2 80mm fans as rear exhaust, 1 250mm side window intake and 1 80mm HDD cooling fan.   A few days after overclocking, I ran Prime95 to test my sytem and Core Temp to check the temperature.  After running Prime95 for 5 hours (full CPU load on both cores), my CPU never got higher than 41 degrees celsius and I've got my E6420 overclocked to 3.15Ghz.


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Offline Gixer

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Re: CPU cooling adventures...
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2008, 05:17:45 AM »
With a high end air cooler Intel Dual Core CPU's (with a good 40-50% overclock) shouldn't really be breaking 50 deg under continuous load. Trying lowering CPU voltage. Set Ram to 1:1 ratio (try stock voltage first and timings) and set NB Vcore to stock any issues (first indication can be scratchy sound) up NB Vcore one small voltage notch.

Only work with tiny voltage increases on CPU, don't jump 10 volts. And always be very very careful with NB Vcore.

If you are still getting high CPU Vcore temps, check that you haven't reduced the CPU cooling efficiency by applying too much Thermal Paste. Only requires a tiny amount.


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Offline Fulmar

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Re: CPU cooling adventures...
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2008, 08:31:08 AM »
With a high end air cooler Intel Dual Core CPU's (with a good 40-50% overclock) shouldn't really be breaking 50 deg under continuous load. Trying lowering CPU voltage. Set Ram to 1:1 ratio (try stock voltage first and timings) and set NB Vcore to stock any issues (first indication can be scratchy sound) up NB Vcore one small voltage notch.
That's the thing though.  I'm at stock.  I haven't OC'd in about a year.  So my voltages are at stock/auto values.

BaldEagl did mention that it is summer time, which my comp does run hotter, 5C+ on average.  I guess what I'm trying to get at is I would have liked to see a drop in temps rather than no improvement at all.  When I reinstalled with the HSF I cleaned up the cable mess I had going on, so airflow should be better than what it was before.  My IDE cables are round, I've used to have a SB Audigy with the 5.25" Drive that had the big old flat cable (now removed).  Most cables are hidden or at least tucked out of the way as much as possible.

I do not have my homemade northbridge fan on now because it developed a loose connection is the wiring, so I need to repair that.

I do know that since my 8800 is so large the intake air in the front is most likely not reaching the top part of the motherboard where my CPU is.  That intake fan is essentially between those two hard drives in front of the case.

The reviews I've read on the Freezer 7 have been very good.  My friend has one in his E6320 and his OC temps where better than what I had stock.  But he has the Antec 900 case...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021
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Offline HomeBoy

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Re: CPU cooling adventures...
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2008, 09:38:46 AM »
Fulmar,
I use a Thermaltake Extreme Spirit II cooler on my Northbridge:


It is pretty cheap (around $17) and runs very quietly.  It does a great job.  I put one on my Southbridge too though that was probably a bit of overkill.  Nice thing about this cooler is you can move it around at different angles to dodge big stuff like the 8800 etc.

Yes, the Antec 900 is a fantastic case.  I bought one earlier this year and have been amazed how much better the system cools with it.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 09:43:57 AM by HomeBoy »
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Offline Fulmar

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Re: CPU cooling adventures...
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2008, 09:56:45 AM »
Fulmar,
I use a Thermaltake Extreme Spirit II cooler on my Northbridge:
(Image removed from quote.)

It is pretty cheap (around $17) and runs very quietly.  It does a great job.  I put one on my Southbridge too though that was probably a bit of overkill.  Nice thing about this cooler is you can move it around at different angles to dodge big stuff like the 8800 etc.

Yes, the Antec 900 is a fantastic case.  I bought one earlier this year and have been amazed how much better the system cools with it.

That chipset cooler does look nice; however, it would not fit in my case.  If you look at that photo, just below the 'fins' on the HSF you can see a little Green/White checkered thing.  It's actually a double sided tape that separates my HSF and the passive heatsink on the northbridge.  Without it they would touch.  So space is really tight there.  The heastink is covered by my homemade fans in the pic, but here is a photo of the motherboard w/o anything on it.  It shows you how large that chipset heatsink is.

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Offline Anodizer

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Re: CPU cooling adventures...
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2008, 11:28:40 AM »
I just put an Arctic Freezer 7 (from stock HSF) and reapplied Arctic Silver 5 on my non-oc'd E6400.  I haven't reached the 200 hours burn in time (maybe 150 or so now) for the Silver yet...but I haven't registered any temperatures changes in my CPU or Core temps.  Before on stock HSF, I was getting high 30's to low 40's Idle CPU temps (non-core) and high 40's to low 50's core temps.  Add about 10-12C on each for load temps.

I'm still getting the same temps...

Now I do have a lot of stuff in my case and the case design isn't the greatest.  Especially for air intake in the front as the HD cage sits behind the front intake fan (see pic below).  The northbride passive heatsink is one flaw of the Asus P5N-E SLI board.  It features no fan.  I've made my own that does a good job.  The chipset runs about 50C (surface on the heatsink) without a fan and about 5-8C cooler when using 2 40mm fans (homemade!) attach on top of the heatsink.
Specs
Intel E6400
Asus P5N-E SLI board 650i Nvidia chipset
8800 GTS 640mb
X-FI Fatality
USB expansion PCI card
DVD-ROM
DVD-RW
2 x 250gb Maxtor's (run about 38-40C on surface)
3.5" Memory card reader
600W Xclio Greatpower PSU

Cooling
Front 80mm Intake
Side Window 120mm Intake
Rear 120mm Exhaust
Top 800mm Exhaust
2 x 40mm Chipset fans
Arctic Freezer 7
Arctic Silver 5
PSU 140mm exhaust fan (on the bottom of PSU directly above the CPU)

(Image removed from quote.)

A couple things..  I don't know if you're an amateur or what, so forgive me for asking some stupid questions.  First of all, are your case fans pointing in the proper directions(in through the front, out through the back)?  As I'm sure you probably know (if they are configured correctly) that this is in issue for many builders who don't think about this when building their system.  Again, don't take offense, just asking..  I'm sure they are arranged correctly.   :aok

Secondly, as with many cases, the configuration of the exhaust fan mountings are rather illogical.  But, due to design limitations, this is all most of us have to work with.  Hence, having your front intake fan down low, and the rear exhaust fan higher whilst airflow being blocked (for the most part) by your video card as well as any of the cables that may be in the way.  This is where case modding comes in.  I'm at work and don't have the time to look or take pictures of my system to show you.  For that, I'm sorry.  But I'll explain in a nutshell as it's a pretty simple concept. 

I no longer use a 3.5" drive so I don't need those bays.  Most cases come with 2 bays for a 3.5" drive incase you want to install a zipdrive or front panel card reader or whatever as well as your standard 3.5" floppy drive.  Yeah, so I don't use those bays..  I bought two high performance Zalman 3" fans and set them side by side.  They actually provide excellent air flow in addition to my 2 120mm case fans. 

I had the same issues as you.  I installed an Arctic Cooler for my processor along with Arctic Silver and didn't notice much of a difference while idle or under load.  I did some research, asked some questions, and found out how important good airflow really was and how the little things can affect it.  I have almost all my cables tucked up behind my motherboard.  I'm not sure if you'll have room for that or not.  I run a pretty lean system and don't have a need for 2 CD\DVD roms or Two hard drives as I use an external if I need extra storage or whatever.
I really strive to have minimal amount of clutter inside the system.  Just about every possible is out of the way and is as open as possible.  I realize you may not be able to do this as it looks like you're packed in pretty tight. 

Oh!  One other trick that helped that I didn't really think was important was this:  On most cases, you'll have the grilled/perforated metal where your casefan/fans are supposed to be mounted.  I read in a few forums that this metal actually restricts airflow and you'd get up to 40% better airflow if you remove that metal and use aftermarket fan grill covers.  So, I cut out the perforated metal, cleaned out the case (be sure to clean out/vacuum out the case when you're done!!  Any stray bits or shavings or metal getting on your motherboard or other components and kiss them goodbye!), and replaced them with the after market grill fan covers and I saw a pretty big drop in case ambient temps! 

So, yeah....  You can try some of this stuff.  May help, may not.  But I think at least a little bit of your problem lies in how your fans are position inside that case (airflow being partially or mostly blocked by your video card) as well as how your cables are positioned.  I use to be a big fan of molded IDE cables, but they seem rather bulky compared to a high end flat 80 pin IDE cable.  The flat cables can be easily tucked behind your motherboard.  Plus, molded cables are more expensive as well. 

One other thing I noticed:  I can't tell by the picture too well, but it looks like you have 4 sticks of memory in that machine, yes?  I assume you're using dual channel DDR2, yes?  Your memory is configured wrong inside your case unless they've made a major change to how memory should be positioned (which I don't think they have).  In order to use dual channel efficiently, you should have one matched pair on one channel, and the other matched pair on the other channel.  In your case, have two different brands of memory paired up on one channel and 2 different brands paired up on the other.  This can cause problems.  I would suggest you put your Crucial Ballistix (looks like Crucial Ballistix by the color but if I'm wrong tell me) in memory slots 1 and 3, and what ever other brand the other stuff is (looks like OCZ but again I may be wrong) on 2 and 4.  This way, you'll have a matched pair on one channel and a match pair on the other.   :rock

Again, sorry if any of the info I told you is redundant and I didn't mean to offend.  <S>   
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: CPU cooling adventures...
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2008, 12:02:11 PM »
Nice catch on the RAM configuration Anodizer.
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Offline Fulmar

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Re: CPU cooling adventures...
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2008, 01:38:57 PM »
Anodizer, thanks for the input.  I wouldn't be an amateur (but no offense taken)
#1 Fans are configured correctly
#2 Gotta leave the 3.5 Memory card reader (I do a lot of photos for myself, friends, and family)
#3 I do run 1 DVD-RW drive and 1 DVD-Rom.  I could take out the DVD-Rom.  I leave it there for conviences of leaving game disks in the drive.
#4 My side intake fan does have a mesh screen on it.  I can see where it may restrict flow of air a big.  It is handy as it keeps my case cat hair free.  I'll try removing it
#5 The DDR2.  As funny as it looks, those sticks of RAM are identical in every aspect other than physical appearance.  The exact part numbers for both G.Skill sets.  One set I bought with the system in Jan '07 and another set in May '07.  G.Skill changed the appearance for whatever reason.  But I doubled checked the system specs in various programs reporting the model # of the ram chips and they are the same.  I keep them in that arrangement as it looks prettier to me :)  My motherboard reports dual channel is properly configured and running as well.

But good eye.

I do believe the source of the problem is poor intake airflow.  And I'll look at options to increasing airflow.
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Offline Fulmar

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Re: CPU cooling adventures...
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2008, 01:43:44 PM »
BTW, this is my case.  Check the Newegg pics for close-ups.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146018

I may remove the front door and place a 5.25" Bay Intake fan system.  I'll keep my eye out.
EDIT:  Something like this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835888104
« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 01:49:41 PM by Fulmar »
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Offline Anodizer

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Re: CPU cooling adventures...
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2008, 11:29:03 PM »
Anodizer, thanks for the input.  I wouldn't be an amateur (but no offense taken)
#1 Fans are configured correctly
#2 Gotta leave the 3.5 Memory card reader (I do a lot of photos for myself, friends, and family)
#3 I do run 1 DVD-RW drive and 1 DVD-Rom.  I could take out the DVD-Rom.  I leave it there for conviences of leaving game disks in the drive.
#4 My side intake fan does have a mesh screen on it.  I can see where it may restrict flow of air a big.  It is handy as it keeps my case cat hair free.  I'll try removing it
#5 The DDR2.  As funny as it looks, those sticks of RAM are identical in every aspect other than physical appearance.  The exact part numbers for both G.Skill sets.  One set I bought with the system in Jan '07 and another set in May '07.  G.Skill changed the appearance for whatever reason.  But I doubled checked the system specs in various programs reporting the model # of the ram chips and they are the same.  I keep them in that arrangement as it looks prettier to me :)  My motherboard reports dual channel is properly configured and running as well.

But good eye.

I do believe the source of the problem is poor intake airflow.  And I'll look at options to increasing airflow.

Didn't think you were an amateur..  But ya never know!   :aok

Anyhow...Yeah, just wanted to be sure you had that configured correctly..  You wouldn't believe how many systems I run into that have the memory installed improperly.  Good luck on any modifications you may need to do!   :rock  <<S>>
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Offline Anodizer

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Re: CPU cooling adventures...
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2008, 11:29:50 PM »
Nice catch on the RAM configuration Anodizer.


TY sir...<S>   :rock
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Offline Anodizer

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Re: CPU cooling adventures...
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2008, 11:32:53 PM »
BTW, this is my case.  Check the Newegg pics for close-ups.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146018

I may remove the front door and place a 5.25" Bay Intake fan system.  I'll keep my eye out.
EDIT:  Something like this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835888104

Yeah, by the looks of it, you can cut out the grilled metal on the front and back and install this as this will give you better airflow.
Also that fan you listed is pretty much what I made and it works wonders!
Good luck bro!  <S>  :rock
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Offline Fulmar

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Re: CPU cooling adventures...
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2008, 10:21:22 AM »
The side window has the grill shape cut into the plastic window.  Between the window and the fan is a plastic type mesh thingy (removeable) that really does the blocking (So its Window | Mesh |  Fan).

I'm going to look at at replacing the 120mm fans with higher RPM ones (I don't mind the noise) and a front 5.25" HD cooler with now HD in it so it acts as pure intake.  But this depends on how easy the front door will come off.
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