Author Topic: flying the p-47  (Read 1799 times)

Offline Rebel

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Re: flying the p-47
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2008, 10:03:29 PM »
  Yeah. Listen to these guys. They got all numbers.  P-47N carries boodles of fuel.  It's like fyin a Lancaster bomber.  Go ahead and stick around and make a few strafing runs after you take a fuel hit.  LOL.  You just better know how to swim. 
  I've bombed targets in the same sector as my airfield and couldn't make it back to the runway before the engine quit after taking a main fuel hit.  But they expect you to learn that the hard way.  Just tryin to save you from mucking up your first months score. 
  Oh.  By the way.  The AA trains at the factories.  Don't mess with'em.  This is really where the extra fuel in a P-47N comes in handy.  Just fly outta range, throttle back and enjoy the scenery until the train is gone.  That'll be in about 3 minutes.  A drop in the bucket for a Jug.
  You carry 1700 rounds of gun ammo alone, and you're gonna take the chance of getting yourself shot up or killed tryin to stop a train from respawning a handful of buildings and a couple of AA guns you can safely strafe ?  Why ? 

Dude. 

You have a ton of gas in the thing, and the capability to take up friggin' biblical amounts of pwnage in ground attack munitions.

Climb to 15K, chop throttle, go 90 degrees, and drop 1500 lbs of love on some poor shed, then roll it out at the bottom and use those rockets to take out the ack.  Once the ground gets frightfully close, gun the engine, haul back, level out at treetop level, punch WEP, and run towards friendlies. 

All told you can drop the VH, maybe the Radar, and about 5 acks in one dive. 
"You rebel scum"

Offline BoilerDown

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Re: flying the p-47
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2008, 01:46:19 AM »
Conclusions:

I have no way to test turn radius, but I suspect the larger wing on the N probably cancels any advantage the D-40 has in turn from its lighter weight.

IMO, for MA use, the slight speed and climb rate advantage of the D-40 on MIL is not as as beneficial as being able to go 20+mph faster on the deck than that horde of Spits behind you looking for an easy kill.  :D

Maybe... but the D-40 is 20 Eny and the N is 5 Eny.  So you'll earn perks 4 times faster with the 40, minus however much not having the 5 minutes of N WEP costs you.  I don't think the N is worth it.
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Offline Noir

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Re: flying the p-47
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2008, 05:03:47 AM »
You can bomb stuff without entering effective ack range, if your speed/skill is high enough. Americans rides are pretty effective for that. Like dropping a cruiser without taking a single hit.
now posting as SirNuke

Offline BnZ

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Re: flying the p-47
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2008, 08:09:02 AM »
Maybe... but the D-40 is 20 Eny and the N is 5 Eny.  So you'll earn perks 4 times faster with the 40, minus however much not having the 5 minutes of N WEP costs you.  I don't think the N is worth it.


Well sir, thats one way to look at it, but I think its pretty undeniable that in any other Jug than N, at typical MA alts, there are tons of Spixteens and other planes about that just pwn the thing  too badly in every area of performance. Good to have the ability to at least engage and disengage at will under those circumstances. Sure, there are a few like Mustangs and La's will still catch an N, but at least if you have the speed to drag them away from the rest of the horde a good bit first, you have a fighting chance.

I mean, you can TRY to fly a D-40/D-25 at altitudes where they are more competitive, but there seems to be little going on above 10K, almost nothing above 15K, and absolute deadness at 20K or above.

Perks are unimportant to me. I have thousands and they just keep piling up because there are no perk planes I really like. Occasional C-hog foray when I absolutely MUST come off a carrier is about it. P-47N shouldn't be a 5 ENY plane anyway...it is more or less equal to a P-51D, maybe a little harder to find success with in typical situations, and the eny should reflect that.

Now if they gave us the P-47M as a perked plane, then I would probably blow alot of perks in a hurry.

Offline Obie303

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Re: flying the p-47
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2008, 09:00:45 AM »
Quote
Besides a clue?  A whole hell of a lot.

Ack-Ack, remind me not to ever get  on your bad side! :D

I think the M would be a fantastic addition to the Jug line.  But I don't see it happening any time too soon. 
I have fought a good fight,
I have finished my course,
I have kept the faith.
(quote on a Polish pilot's grave marker in Nottinghamshire, England)

71 (Eagle) Squadron

Offline jerkins

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Re: flying the p-47
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2008, 12:16:21 PM »
A well flown d series 47 can dominate many spits and la's in the MA.  IMO in the 47 vs 51 matchup, the 47 is by far superior.   People greatly underestimate the 47 in the MA's.  They see one low, even if its at 400 mph, they think "easy kill".  I love making poeple think, how did he do that, thats a heavy, sluggish p47.
Jerkins
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Offline Krusty

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Re: flying the p-47
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2008, 01:33:50 PM »
47s don't "dominate"...

I think a P-47 can kill almost anything in the game if flown right and if the pilot flies in such a way as to only fight the way he can win.

Please don't take that to mean diving in taking a shot and running. I mean mixing it up, whatever, using the tricks that specific pilots knows and relies on. However, I do not think it "dominates" most of the planeset. It's on par with most of it, superior to some, and inferior to many rides.

I don't often have much problems killing a 47 in the MAs, but once in a while I've been surprised.

Offline jerkins

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Re: flying the p-47
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2008, 03:54:40 PM »
Dominate may have been too strongly worded.  I meant can become a handful quickly if underestimated.  Most pilots (not all) who fly spits and la's don't have a very good handle on ACM, and will find themselves dead quickly when fighting a 47 pilot who knows what he is doing.  But I must also so, they would find themselves dead quickly no matter what the more advanced pilot was flying.
Jerkins
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: flying the p-47
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2008, 04:00:51 PM »
A lot of people are wary of getting anywheres close to a head on with a Jug. You can use that to advantage. I was able to beat a Hellcat yesterday because he made a mistake after a near HO, neither of us shot, and he allowed to much separation and I was able to get an angle on him. Had he just kept me turning I would have probably been in trouble.

I should learn Jugs a bit better I think. Even still As long as I have some air under me the Jugs leave me feeling very confident. I dont think theres another airplane that can roll like them. I prefer the D-40 myself but somtimes take the N.
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"

Offline morfiend

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Re: flying the p-47
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2008, 05:47:37 PM »
A lot of people are wary of getting anywheres close to a head on with a Jug. You can use that to advantage. I was able to beat a Hellcat yesterday because he made a mistake after a near HO, neither of us shot, and he allowed to much separation and I was able to get an angle on him. Had he just kept me turning I would have probably been in trouble.

I should learn Jugs a bit better I think. Even still As long as I have some air under me the Jugs leave me feeling very confident. I dont think theres another airplane that can roll like them. I prefer the D-40 myself but sometimes take the N.




 I dont usually say much in these posts but when I see bad imformation I cant help myself.
  Sry Rich,but the 47 has average roll,nothing even close to 190 roll rate proper use of roll
 can make up for lack of turn rate.

 I tend to use 47D40,mind you I haven't flown it for awhile,the only reason I pick the D40,diveflaps.
 I'd actually prefer the D11 but the added advantage of Dflaps tends to win me over. Also I might add
 listen to Widewing,he's 1 of the most knowledgable persons when it comes to A/C and their capabilities.He's shown me what a 47 can do and it didn't matter what I used he would find away to defeat me.

Offline bongaroo

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Re: flying the p-47
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2008, 09:38:30 AM »
Using that huge paddle of a rudder can get you a nice roll.
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Offline LilMak

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Re: flying the p-47
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2008, 01:46:28 PM »
This is something I wrote up for the J.U.G.S. I love the Thunderbolt and try to make it my Primary ride in the MA.


So I hear a lot of questions on how to dogfight in the Jug. As a virtual fighter in LWMA I'm probably as average as they come. I die much more often than I should but, most of the time, it's because I fly like an idiot. (taking off from capped bases, diving into 6 on 1s, hitting trees, turn fighting spits and zekes, ect.) Many argue that the D-11 is the best for pure dog fighting because of it's speed and marginally better turning ability which is mostly true. I'm a terrible shot and the D-11's braces give me fits (especially the forward ones). Too many blind spots breaks my cardinal rule of dog fighting. Which is..."NEVER LOSE SIGHT OF THE ENEMY!" If you do, you're dead. SA is uber important in a plane that attracts enemies like flies to a turd. This is just my opinion of course.

I get most of my Jug time in the D-40 because I feel that it is the most versatile of the P-47 set. What I've discovered about the D-40 that's saved my bacon and surprised many a spit16 pilot is that it bleeds E like a stuck pig when you want it to. When you get slow in a Jug it tends to "wallow" or feel like it's stuck in mud. This can be a very uncomfortable feeling when you get into a turn fight with one of those twisty planes in the set. But it's exactly this wallowing that can make it seem that it is "out turning" some planes. When you get really slow, is sort of "parks" its self when you run out of air speed. This can cause the turn and burn planes to overshoot in their turns. Often I can "park" it in a nose up stall and watch as a spit moves from my three o'clock position to right across my nose pulling with all his might to get a shot. If I miss I kick in HARD rudder in the direction he's going and get that nose back down to try and catch him on the other side of his turn. Essentially what's happening is he's trying to turn around a stationary object. If you're inside the bubble of his max flat turn radius you'll giggle to yourself as he pulls on the stick and only seems to fly around his target never to get guns on you. This works best when you and your enemy are both stall fighting (really low on E) and your adversary is flat turning to get a shot. If your enemy is smart, you'll notice right away because they'll almost always go for the vertical fight where you'll get beat like a red headed step
child. When you see them start to go vertical, go nose low and get some horizontal distance in order to get set for the next attack.


Strengths of the D-40 (true for most P-47s)

Dive ability.
If you're @ 5k in virtually equal E states with another plane, you
can out run (just about) anything down to the deck if you nose over
and hit the WEP. The problem is that you need to have a plan when
you get to the deck because you will get caught by the faster planes
once you're there.

Turning Ability.
Something not normally associated with the Jug. The P-47 has
fantastic high speed turning ability and, coupled with the first
notch of flaps, will turn with or out-turn just about anything at
greater than 250kts. P-51s, Typhs, 190s, and LA-7s can be easy
picking if they decide to engage you in a high speed turn fight.

Zoom Climb.
One of Newton's Law's. The Jug is a heavy machine. Think of it as if
it was a cement truck rolling down a hill. It will carry a bunch of
inertia on the initial climb and will surprise the hell out of
someone who underestimates your E state. One thing I like to do is
come at a furball from above in a shallow dive paying attention to
the higher cons (pickers) in the group. I'll come in @ over 400kts
and, if the timing is right, ride right up the butt of a picker that
thinks he's safe from "the slow climbing Jug." I love doing this to
38s, 109s, and other machines that do well in the vert. You have to
be careful though. Once you lose that inertia, you're counting on
that R-2800 to do lifting it just isn't capable of. Break off the
zoom early if you have any doubt weather or not you'll catch them.

High Altitude Perfomance.
This is where the lumbering monster shines. The Juggernaut is
differen't to almost all the other planes in AHII. Most of the other
birds lose performance dramatically as you get high. The P-47
doesn't. Nothing puts a bigger grin on my face than seeing a lone LA-
7 with me @ 15k. I know he's gonna be eaten alive unless he's able
to dodge all my 3400 rounds till we're both on the deck. It's also
fun to see P-38s try to run away.

8 fifties and tons of ammo.
There are some that say the six gun package helps the performance on
the Thunderbolt. This is true but, in my opinion, the performance
gains of leaving the ammo and guns in the hangar do not make up for
snap shot ability. Even with the lighter gun and ammo package, the
Jug is still a dog compared to many other planes in the set. When
flying you need to bring down enemies as fast as possible. With the
extra ammo and all eight guns you can afford to take shots that
would normally be a waste of ammo.

Dive brakes.
The D-40 also has the dive brakes or spoilers (shift+c) which will
cause many an LA dweeb screaming up your rear to have fits as they
blow past you on the overshoot. The cool thing about the brakes is
that they (the enemy) can't really see them. If you ever wondered
where they are, sit on the runway with external view and look at the
front of the plane while you deploy/retract they don't slow you down
quite as much as true dive brakes or the gear on a F4U but, when you
couple them with the high speed flaps and a little back pressure on
the stick, the speed comes off quick.

Range and Load carring ability.
The D-40 has good range and can cary a wide variety of weapons and
gas. I typically take off from anywhere with 75% internal fuel and
alter the load from there. This gives you 30 minutes of flight time
at full military power. When I take off from a base that's not on
the front line I add center drop tank which adds about 8 minutes or
so to the flight time. My typical load for base attack is 2 bombs,
10 rockets, and a center drop tank. Whan I bomb a base, my primary
goal is to always wipe out the ammo bunkers. With this load I can do
so @ any base on the map.When I attack GVs, I bring the extra bomb
en leu of the DT. The Jug climbs so slow (especially when loaded)
that you'll be tempted to WEP it durring the climb. Don't do it.
Save WEP for the fight.

Underestimated.
Most polits in the MA see a lone D-40 and think one or two things.
First "light bomber." Second "easy kill". I can't tell you how many
kills I've made simply because my opponent came barreling in and
didn't expect me to put up much of a fight only to find themselves
in the tower saying "WTH?!?"


Basic Dogfighting rules in a D-40...

Stay fast.
While not the fastest plane in the bunch. It can scoot
pretty good (faster than most spits) and turns great
at high speeds.

Get some altitude.
Try to avoid any fight unless you have 5k of
altitude. Diving is about the only thing you can do better than any
other plane and sometimes your only means of escape.

Don't be afraid to get killed.
I know it sounds stupid but the best
way to get good in the Juggernaut is to die A LOT. You have to get
schooled in order to get good This is something I learned a long time ago AW.

Hold down the trigger.
You have tons of ammo and even with eight .50
cals, you'll still have more trouble bringing down planes than you
would with one or two 20mm.

Keep your control inputs smooth.
The P-47 is NOT a Spit or an LA
that can make up for pilot mistakes by turning or running it's way
out of a fight. If you yank the stick you bleed E. You need every
ounce of performance to stay in the game.



LilMak
"When caught by the enemy in large force the best policy is to fight like hell until you can decide what to do next."
~Hub Zemke
P-47 pilot 56th Fighter Group.

Offline Yossarian

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Re: flying the p-47
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2008, 02:42:05 PM »
Excellent write-up  :aok :aok :aok!!!

Thank you very much, and that post is bookmarked!  :)

<S>

Yossarian
Afk for a year or so.  The name of a gun turret in game.  Falanx, huh? :banana:
Apparently I'm in the 20th FG 'Loco Busters', or so the legend goes.
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