Combine best of old capture war and strategic war

[Shifty]

There is nothing like flying for 45 min all the way across map territory to get to your target only to have 20 fighters come at you at one time because they have been watching you for those same  past 45 min you have been in the air.

Think about how the poor guys that flew the actual Schwienfurt raid felt.

[TheBug]

There is nothing like flying for 45 min all the way across map territory to get to your target only to have 20 fighters come at you at one time because they have been watching you for those same  past 45 min you have been in the air.

You are saying that a bomber should be able to make it all the way to target without interception??  I think what you are discussing is a matter of tactics rather than setup.  It is the same problem that was presented during the war.  Initially the belief was the bombers could make the runs unescorted, relying on speed and defensive armament. Hence the reason for lack of long range escorts, fighters were to serve just as interceptors.  But that was proven to be false and the need for escort became very apparent.  So instead of adjusting DAR to allow your bombers through I say coordinate with your fellow team members and have an escort to aid in getting your bombers to target. <S>

[oceans11]

There is nothing like flying for 45 min all the way across map territory to get to your target only to have 20 fighters come at you at one time because they have been watching you for those same  past 45 min you have been in the air.

Think about how the poor guys that flew the actual Schwienfurt raid felt.

Not sure
But they sure weren't singing time is on my side by the rolling stones I bet

But I a more serious note 45 min in today's environment is equiv to 1 day in there time I bet

[oceans11]

You are saying that a bomber should be able to make it all the way to target without interception??  I think what you are discussing is a matter tactics rather than setup.  It is the same problem that was presented during the war.  Initially the belief was the bombers could make the runs unescorted, relying on speed and defensive armament. Hence the reason for lack of long range escorts, fighters were to serve just as interceptors.  But that was proven to be false and the need for escort became very apparent.  So instead of adjusting DAR to allow your bombers through I say coordinate with your fellow team members and have an escort to aid in getting your bombers to target. <S>

But again they didnt find them from a red darbar .
and they def are not sitting down drinking beer debating about when to up and wack them .

They had to work at what was to be accomplished

All I am asking for is for fairness.
Watching DARBARS and upping to attack is far from fair IMO

[Motherland]

Watching DARBARS and upping to attack is far from fair IMO

Only knowing someone is their once your strat starts flashing is very, very far from realistic. Much farther from realistic than dar bars as a similar system to them existed.

[TheBug]

Basically yes they did.  The Germans had Radar with ranges well over 100 miles.  The pilots in the air were coordinated realtime by a ground controller who had access to these radar plots.  This was generally how air battles were fought in WWII between major powers.  I don't mean this to sound mean, but I really think you should read up a bit more on the subject.  I think you are confusing the tactics of WWII with WWI.

[oceans11]

Only knowing someone is their once your strat starts flashing is very, very far from realistic. Much farther from realistic than dar bars as a similar system to them existed.

Much farther from realistic than dar bars as a similar system to them existed.

Somebody needs to point me to the name of this  similar electronic system that  existed.

Besides word of mouth I can not seem to find this dar bar type of system THAT EXISTED IN THE 40'S

I am starting to feel like my intelligece is being insulted.
Even after conversing with people on the bases that I frequent nobody can seem to explain to me this dar-bar type of system that existed in those days.

RADAR 100 miles .
In this game you are comparing greater ranges
Ground controllers
Have you ever dialed a SS7 telephone (pulse)
BT time you dialed somebody could be 60 miles away from last position

Why do you people try to compare 1940's technology to todays Systems.


I do read sir about 6 books a day

If you are speaking word of mouth ."they do not compare" sorry

[oceans11]

Basically yes they did.  The Germans had Radar with ranges well over 100 miles.  The pilots in the air were coordinated realtime by a ground controller who had access to these radar plots.  This was generally how air battles were fought in WWII between major powers.  I don't mean this to sound mean, but I really think you should read up a bit more on the subject.  I think you are confusing the tactics of WWII with WWI.

Thats right everyplane had nextel

can you here me know  ooops thats verizon they have CDSM and ssids that get broadcast from satelites . I hear they where in orbit back then too

[Motherland]

Oceans11,

Apparently you aren't aware that during WWII aircraft were equipped with a nifty newfangled device called a 'radio' that allowed them to communicate with ground forces and other aircraft.

[oceans11]

Oceans11,

Apparently you aren't aware that during WWII aircraft were equipped with a nifty newfangled device called a 'radio' that allowed them to communicate with ground forces and other aircraft.

But Motherland
My point is being twisted AGAIN.
Radios only allowed you to convey what one person see's
And Radios while good did not have frequency accuracy as of today.

If you do not see it or intercept you couldnt react

A computerised dar bar everybody see's
 
Take away DAR BAR and let everybody " use the a nifty newfangled device called a 'radio' that allowed them to communicate

That is what would make it even then.

LET them use the communication of that era ONLY

 

[Motherland]

My point was that ground controllers were able to communicate in real time with aircraft using radios. Thus DarBar.

[Oldman731]

Somebody needs to point me to the name of this  similar electronic system that  existed.

Search Wikipedia for "Wurzburg" and "Freya" radars.  In this case Freya was the 100-mile early warning radar, and Wurzburg the gun-laying device.

Probably the better analogy for our DAR bar, though, was radio intercepts.  German radio operators had no difficulty monitoring the huge increase in radio traffic that accompanied a bomber raid, beginning on the ground with the aircraft radio operators testing their sets.  And, of course, the bomber formations assembled over England before progressing across either the Channel or the North Sea, a process that took a considerable amount of time.  The existence of an incoming raid wasn't much of a surprise.  It's destination could be, however.  The August 17, 1943 Schweinfurt-Regensburg mission was probably the first major example of an attempt to fool the Germans as to the bombers' route, and the shuttle missions to Russia were probably the most successful implementations of the trick ("Hey, they didn't come back!").  German fighters (like everyone's fighters except the US and Japanese) had relatively short range, so a surprise change in route could eliminate much of the opposition if the German fighter controllers guessed wrong and sent their aircraft the wrong way.

We can actually do the same thing in AH2.  Last week I saw an Axis mission that sure fooled me.

- oldman

[oceans11]

OLDMAN .thanks 

I will read up on that technology            Wurzburg" and "Freya" radars "

Thank you for the input

But it still required picking up a phone/talkie no?

and it did not have people   looking at a PC screen and getting a 6k mile radius down view look right ? like an AEWAC

That is only my point

[TheBug]

Search Wikipedia for "Wurzburg" and "Freya" radars.  In this case Freya was the 100-mile early warning radar, and Wurzburg the gun-laying device.

Probably the better analogy for our DAR bar, though, was radio intercepts.  German radio operators had no difficulty monitoring the huge increase in radio traffic that accompanied a bomber raid, beginning on the ground with the aircraft radio operators testing their sets.  And, of course, the bomber formations assembled over England before progressing across either the Channel or the North Sea, a process that took a considerable amount of time.  The existence of an incoming raid wasn't much of a surprise.  It's destination could be, however.  The August 17, 1943 Schweinfurt-Regensburg mission was probably the first major example of an attempt to fool the Germans as to the bombers' route, and the shuttle missions to Russia were probably the most successful implementations of the trick ("Hey, they didn't come back!").  German fighters (like everyone's fighters except the US and Japanese) had relatively short range, so a surprise change in route could eliminate much of the opposition if the German fighter controllers guessed wrong and sent their aircraft the wrong way.

We can actually do the same thing in AH2.  Last week I saw an Axis mission that sure fooled me.

- oldman

Good post OM, forgot to mention radio intercept.  A very important piece of intelligence gathering.

[Motherland]

Some things have to be simplified... like the simplifications of engine management, bomb sight calibration, and even taking off and trimming your aircraft if you have the automatic features enabled.
The only part the game simplifies in this sense is the part where the ground control crew radios the location to you.