Questions with death

[Reschke]

<S> Ink! Keep the faith and move on.

As for you Oogly50 you are missing the biggest part in this. I am a Christian because I believe there is something/someone much bigger than me. We have freedom and freewill to do things, think things and act on those thoughts and feelings but I don't. I have not been the most pious or righteous individual and don't think I ever will be; but I know that I am forgiven. I don't believe in a heaven like you or the vast majority of Christians describe...in fact I don't know what to think. I just know that I have faith in the Grace of God and everything will be fine in the end. I will die when I die and I am not worried. A great book to read is one called "The Christian Agnostic" by Leslie Weatherhead.

http://www.amazon.com/Christian-Agnostic-Abingdon-Classics/dp/0687069807

Don't just rely on posters here on this board or any other. Experience things and ask people of faith in your community about their personal experience. You just might be surprised to find that some of the ministers weren't always altar boys no matter what the faith or denomination.

Best of luck to you.

[BMathis]

ink thank you for sharing that    Congratulations on getting your life on track <S>

I second that 

 

Mathis

[68Wooley]

I have to admit, I struggle with religion and the nagging doubt that its all just a bunch of superstition gotten out of control or being used for political ends. What is it about the currently popular religions that make them any more valid than each other or the many hundreds that went before them?

Here's the rub - I personally have a lot less problem believing life on Earth is just a cosmic coincidence than the design of some supreme being.

When it comes down to it, I try not to worry too much about the things I can't change. I can't change the fact I'm going to die, so why worry about it.

[ink]

thank you guys,

i would like to touch base on "Heaven" from reading the bible i have come to understanding that heaven will be here on earth, i wont go into all the quotes. but in many places it refers to "Heaven on earth"  

now i want to say that the King James Bible, which is one of the best is also sometimes wrongly translated, the KJV, was written in 1611, and there are so many spots that the words are not translated properly,  if you really want to know what it says, go and get a Strong's concordance, it brings every word back to the origanal meaning, and it also has a Hebrew and Greek dictionary, so you can truly see what the origanal writer Yahaveh wanted to convey to his children.

  i do not read ANY other book about the bible, (except the Strong's) but that is to bring the words to there true meaning.

 for example when Satan is in the garden he deceives eve, but the word deceive is wrong, it should be "wholly seduced" to put it bluntly he they,( and yes Adam also,) sex, and you can find other places in the word that confirms this.

 religion is not from Yahaveh, religion is from people, again those of you who think that by people actions they can understand Yahaveh, or by listening to people especially people in religion, will never begin to see the truth. there are so many of mans tradition embedded into religion nowadays its unbelievable, most religions try to tell us that Yahaveh and his son are the same entity, but that is so wrong, when Yahaveh created light in the very beginning, he created his first begotten son Yeshua, who is the light to the world,he is not the creator he is a creation like us except he is the first creation.
 
 i guess i will stop because i could go on a loooooooooooong time.

read the word of Yahaveh, seek the truth, keep knocking he will answer.

[xNOVAx]

You're gonna die, that's just the way it is.  No reason to be afraid of it.  If something more happens after you die, then great.  If not, then you'll be blinked out of existence and you won't have the opportunity to care or feel regret.

That's really how I look at it as well.. I think all in all, it really comes down to what "You Want" to believe. Nobody can tell you what to think, believe, feel, or understand about religion since nobody can prove anything more than the next. Your religion is a personal choice, anyone who tells you otherwise is ignorant. I personally find my 'religion' (if you can even call it that) through science and philosophy. In my studies of the topics, I find myself boxed into a corner. Once everything is broken down to its most basic form, I find that the very existence of the universe is proof enough for me for a higher power of some form or another. What that means I have NO CLUE, but I 'choose' to embrace that uncertainty with excitement.. The possibilities are truly endless and to me, that's exciting.. If there's really nothing after you die, you wont know the difference since your consciousness will cease to exist.

I always at least try to remember that there's no reason to fear the unknown. For all you know, the unknown could be better than you could have ever imagined.

[Angus]

Oogly, I understand your fear. I see no beaty in death, and I am unsure what happens thereafter.
It will be painless at best, and cut you away from your loved ones.
What I am sure of though, is that something happens thereafter. And I think mankind is not supposed to know what exactly, since that if we all knew, we'd go ape.
I won't try to drag you into any particular religion, since I am hardly religious.
From life though, I went through events that convinced me of that there is "more".
Just what? That is the question...
Don't sweat....Think about life and your loved ones instead of death. When you fly over to the long flying grounds, you will find out, - or not....- like the rest of us inevitably will.
Untill then....have a good time.

[falcon23]

Ink,you make many very valid points,and I also thank you for you sharing your testimony here..God is awesome,that is why he sent his son Jesus to die for us sinners..Funny thing about some people is they say the jews killed Jesus..In all honesty,we ALL put him on the cross with our sins..

  I know their is a ONE GOD.."I AM" he called himself in the OT when speaking to moses..

Jesus is also God incarnated in the flesh and he dwelt among us...

 Ink,of course you are also correct in that it is not religion that saves us,but RELATIONSHIP with Jesus Christ..As inks life brought him finally to Jesus,so has my meanderings brought me also to Jesus,and many of the other christians in this world.God makes straight that which is crooked..


  Oogly,if I could just try and hit you with something that maybe you will understand as well as others..and that is..It takes an intelligence to MAKE an intelligence..

 All I can say is whatothers have.Pray and ask God to show you what he wants for your life,ask him to show you the truth of himself.You dont have to be kneeling in a pew at a church to pray.I have had some great convos in the car..

 And also get into the bible,this is where he speaks to us,that is where our spirit gets fed..

  The biggest lie the devil has going ,well one of a few ,is that he/the devil,does not exist,and #2 is that God does not care for us..
                                                   Falcon23

[lasersailor184]

Now that is one of the most evil things that could ever be said.  That everyone, regardless of who they are, are damned just for being human.  It doesn't matter who they are, they are damned unless they beg for salvation.

Screw genocide, rape, murder, people talking in theaters, and pillage.



THAT IS EVIL INCARNATE.

[Carrel]

Eduard Delacroix: [in the electric chair, about to be executed] Don't forgot about Mouseville.
[Paul and Brutal nod]
Percy Wetmore: Hey. There's no such place. It's just a fairytale these guys told you to keep you quiet. Just thought you should know, studmuffingot.
-The Green Mile



There ain't no Mouseville and there ain't no Heaven- once you're gone you'll never again feel the shock of jumping into a cold pool of water, the warm sun on your shoulders, the smell of a fresh cut lawn- You're just gone, and those left behind will miss you terribly forever.

[AKIron]

Eduard Delacroix: [in the electric chair, about to be executed] Don't forgot about Mouseville.
[Paul and Brutal nod]
Percy Wetmore: Hey. There's no such place. It's just a fairytale these guys told you to keep you quiet. Just thought you should know, studgot.
-The Green Mile



There ain't no Mouseville and there ain't no Heaven- once you're gone you'll never again feel the shock of jumping into a cold pool of water, the warm sun on your shoulders, the smell of a fresh cut lawn- You're just gone, and those left behind will miss you terribly forever.

Explain the intrinsic need for meaning that almost everyone shares. A need so strong that religions are created by even those who eschew traditonal religions focused on the supernatural. Explain the creation of the universe. Unless you can how can you be so certain you are only what you see?

[wrag]

First off, you're coming at this from the wrong angle.

It is foolish to demand proof of existance from God.  It is JUST as foolish that after making that demand and receiving no proof, jumping to the conclusion that God does not exist, and thus becoming an atheist.

Second is assuming that God is an all encompassing, capable of everything entity.  I think that the world itself either proves he is not, or chooses not to be (the latter which I believe).  And a lot of people lose faith over this as well.  The simple fact that bad things happen to good people drives a lot of people to question whether or not he exists.


Now here's where I'm going to lose people.  I personally think that Good and Evil being attached to God and the Devil respectively are backwards as it currently stands.  I haven't studied much of the bible, but according to everything I have personally come to believe in, all the biblical stories where evil exists actually shows evil punishing the good. 

Take, for example, some of the first mentions of man.  Cain and Abel.  Cain learns how to cultivate the land.  He uses intelligence, ingenuity and strength to create vast quanitities of food.  Abel merely herds some animals.  When it comes time to honor god with what was created, Cain was ignored, and Abel was not.  This is one of the first (of many) stories about how someone WILL be punished for being capable and intelligent.  Another example is the Tower of Babel

This has led me to believe that religion is a manifestation of the Devil.  What was that quote?  Something like "the devil will show himself as the hypocrites of the world?"  In every religion all across the world they demand obediance in God's name to scare up worship.  However these people that do this also gain power and money for themselves.  Which shows that Religion is another form of Government.  And just as every other government, "Man cannot be governed, and free."  And given that we ARE free, and that we have free will (and that very few other animals do as well), God has given us this free will.  It's silly to think that we're given free will, but punished if we use it.


I also forgot to mention, I think God has a great sense of humor, and his favorite gag is Irony.

HMMMMMM>>>>>>>>>

IIRC Cain was NOT Adam's son............

Ink wrote...

" for example when Satan is in the garden he deceives eve, but the word deceive is wrong, it should be "wholly seduced" to put it bluntly he they,( and yes Adam also,) sex, and you can find other places in the word that confirms this."

I think the word is BEGUILED which is rooted in Greek..... "wholly seduced"

Cain was the son of.............

Do a lookup of Kinites? (spelling?)

The tower of Babel was constructed as a direct measure intending to bypass God.

The ORIGINAL KJV had a message printed in the front telling all that read it that the translators had done their best BUT they KNEW they had made mistakes!  And anyone reading it should double check things!  (words then had different meanings then they do now.) 

English is a odd language.

Example:  When I was young the word BAD meant several different things INCLUDING the opposite of the dictionary meaning.........  USED in certain ways it actually meant GOOD?!?!?!?

[ink]

Ink,you make many very valid points,and I also thank you for you sharing your testimony here..God is awesome,that is why he sent his son Jesus to die for us sinners..Funny thing about some people is they say the jews killed Jesus..In all honesty,we ALL put him on the cross with our sins..

  I know their is a ONE GOD.."I AM" he called himself in the OT when speaking to moses..

Jesus is also God incarnated in the flesh and he dwelt among us...

 Ink,of course you are also correct in that it is not religion that saves us,but RELATIONSHIP with Jesus Christ..As inks life brought him finally to Jesus,so has my meanderings brought me also to Jesus,and many of the other christians in this world.God makes straight that which is crooked..


  Oogly,if I could just try and hit you with something that maybe you will understand as well as others..and that is..It takes an intelligence to MAKE and intelligence..

 All I can say is whatothers have.Pray and ask God to show you what he wants for your life,ask him to show you the truth of himself.You dont have to be kneeling in a pew at a church to pray.I have had some great convos in the car..

 And also get into the bible,this is where he speaks to us,that is where our spirit gets fed..

  The biggest lie the devil has going ,well one of a few ,is that he/the devil,does not exist,and #2 is that God does not care for us..
                                                   Falcon23

falcon thax,

 if I may: christen religion has distorted what the words say, you say that Yeshua (jesus) is Yahaveh incarnate, this is one of those distorted  truths, you Falcon seem very much a lover of God, so i will look in the bible to show you why i say this.
Gen:1-3
  than God said " let there be light" 
1 Corinthians's 15:27-28
          *  27.
    * For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

    * 28.
    * And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.   


   John 17: 11   
    * And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

if what religion says is true that Yeshua is Yahaveh, meaning he is the creator,according to this passage we then all of us are just one person,

which is imposable.


okay now to the serious part

you quote "I AM"

that is in Exodus 3: 14 
 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM : and he said , Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you
 
but all we need to do is look to the next verse

Exodus 15.
# And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

here is where we see his true name, but due to mans tradition its hard to see, The LORD, in the manuscripts is YHVH, Yahveh,
in 14 he is describing himself what does the end of 15 say?
 it was mans tradition to take out Gods name would you like to see more? watch this

Jeremiah :23-27
 Which think  to cause my people  to forget  my name  by their dreams  which they tell  every man  to his neighbor,  as their fathers  have forgotten  my name  for Baal.

i want to include a few verses just to make the point. every where you see LORD, or GOD that is where his name is.

    *  23.
    * Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?

    * 24.
    * Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

    * 25.
    * I have heard what the prophets said , that prophesy lies in my name, saying , I have dreamed , I have dreamed .

    * 26.
    * How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;

    * 27.
    * Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.

    * 28.
    * The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD.

    * 29.
    * Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces ?

    * 30.
    * Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.

    * 31.
    * Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say , He saith .

    * 32.
    * Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all , saith the LORD.

    * 33.
    * And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying , What is the burden of the LORD? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the LORD.

    * 34.
    * And as for the prophet, and the priest, and the people, that shall say , The burden of the LORD, I will even punish that man and his house.

    * 35.
    * Thus shall ye say every one to his neighbour, and every one to his brother, What hath the LORD answered ? and, What hath the LORD spoken ?

    * 36.
    * And the burden of the LORD shall ye mention no more: for every man's word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the LORD of hosts our God.

when i read the word i say Yahaveh where it should be and Yeshua also where it should, Christ actually means Messiah, so Yeshua the Messiah
 

[68Wooley]

Explain the creation of the universe. Unless you can how can you be so certain you are only what you see?

Seriously? We can't explain everything around us so it must be the work of God? How about we can't explain something because we're just not clever enough - yet. Give us time and we'll figure it out.

If everyone had just accepted that everything around them was the work of God, we'd all still be living in caves and hoping not to become a mid-day snack for something higher up the food chain.

Good luck to those of you who get strength from your faith, but its just not for me.

[ink]

HMMMMMM>>>>>>>>>

IIRC Cain was NOT Adam's son............

Ink wrote...

" for example when Satan is in the garden he deceives eve, but the word deceive is wrong, it should be "wholly seduced" to put it bluntly he they,( and yes Adam also,) sex, and you can find other places in the word that confirms this."

I think the word is BEGUILED which is rooted in Greek..... "wholly seduced"

Cain was the son of.............

Do a lookup of Kinites? (spelling?)

The tower of Babel was constructed as a direct measure intending to bypass God.

The ORIGINAL KJV had a message printed in the front telling all that read it that the translators had done their best BUT they KNEW they had made mistakes!  And anyone reading it should double check things!  (words then had different meanings then they do now.) 

English is a odd language.

Example:  When I was young the word BAD meant several different things INCLUDING the opposite of the dictionary meaning.........  USED in certain ways it actually meant GOOD?!?!?!?

thanx for the fix,

 and i am not sure but i am beginning to believe that Cain was Satan's son and Able was Adams son, twin sons no less, but in all reality, the things i dont understand, i don't let it hang me up.

[wrag]

thanx for the fix,

 and i am not sure but i am beginning to believe that Cain was Satan's son and Able was Adams son, twin sons no less, but in all reality, the things i dont understand, i don't let it hang me up.

Lucifer got there first...........

beguiled "wholly seduced"

Look up beguiled and I think you will see that it has a SPECIFIC meaning....

(Anyone remember that Clint Eastwood movie "The Beguiled" ?  and what he was doing?)

then Eve went immediately to Adam and .............

IIRC They were MATERNAL twins..............

The Bible is actually not too difficult to understand if you read it the way it was written...

does it not say BEWARE the traditions of men?

Traditions claims Adam and Eve were the 1st.............

Yes they were the 1st of the line of the Saviour (they were created with a specific purpose)...

BUT if you read 1st Genesis and then proceed to 2nd Genesis AND avoid the tradition of 2nd partially being a repeat of 1st............

God made MAN on the 6th day and rested...

THEN....

on the 8th day he created Adam and Eve...........

That would mean that Cain married someone OTHER then one of his own sisters!

May I make a suggestion?

Pick up a copy of the Companion Bible (large print version ISBN 0-8254-2099-7)

E. W. Bullinger  put this copy together and it is said he was possibly the MOST knowledgeable Biblical scholar thus far........ the appendix's are well worth the price!

He was asked by the Rabi's to participate in their work on the MASSARA* (spelling)