Wesley Clark: Obama Lap Dog & a Disgrace in General

[DiabloTX]

Ahh, but Patton WAS there in 1862...he was there!

[soda72]

Ahh, but Patton WAS there in 1862...he was there!

so true...

Patton's family was from the south, so I don't think he'd appreciate being compared to Grant..

 

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

From Wik; At the height of the Vietnam War, Bush was accepted into the Texas Air National Guard in May 1968, despite scoring the lowest acceptable passing grade on the pilot's written aptitude test.[22][23][24] This was at a time when more than ten thousand Air National Guard personnel, many fighter pilots, were called to active duty to serve in Vietnam.[25] After training, he was assigned to duty in Houston, flying Convair F-102s out of Ellington Air Force Base.[26] Critics allege Bush was favorably treated because of his father's political standing, citing his lack of combat service and his irregular attendance.[27] The United States Department of Defense released all the records of Bush's Texas Air National Guard service, which remain in its official archives.[23] Though not accepted to the University of Texas School of Law in 1970,[28] he accepted a transfer to the Alabama Air National Guard in 1972 to work on a Republican senate campaign, and in October 1973 he was discharged from the Texas Air National Guard, almost eight months early without being called to active duty to serve in Vietnam, to attend Harvard Business School.[29] While at Harvard, Bush completed his six-year service obligation in the inactive reserve.[30]

During this time Bush had multiple accounts of substance abuse.[31] In one instance, Bush was arrested near his family's summer home in Kennebunkport, Maine for driving under the influence of alcohol at the age of thirty on September 4, 1976. He pled guilty, was fined US$150, and had his Maine driver's license suspended until 1978.[32] Bush then attended Harvard University, where he earned his MBA,[33] and entered the oil industry in Texas not long afterward. end;

 Mr. Bush spent much of his service in college, not actually serving. Also the Texas Air National guard was known as a haven for the children of CEO's, Congressmen etc. Now as someone who was around during that time do you really think that you could have gotten into the National Guard? Avoided Viet Nam? Could you could have gotten the favorable treatment G.W. Bush did? Now answer honestly! What I would like to know is how many flight hours did he get while in the Texas Guard. Probably not much. His DD214 (or the officer equivalent) That I would like to see. What was his retention code? Did they fix that too? As far as his drug bust. He was lucky that the policy wasn't updated until 1979.
 OK now lets say for arguments sake that Lt. Bush's service was all good. How does that compare (which was the original point) with either McCain, Clark or Kerry? Does military service really mean a better Commander in Chief? Mmm Carter comes to mind. Flowed with every cause that came along. Wouldn't have wanted to follow him into combat. He lacked leadership. Which is my problem with President Bush. Not a leader, never was.

 The National Guard is an honorable force and to have it used as a dumping ground for some elitist frat boy is a disgrace.

                                       

See, the problem here is Toad is quoting from the military records released when Bush signed the proper forms (the ones John Kerry to this day refuses to sign), where as you are quoting from "wikipedia". His source very easily trumps yours, as the military writes their own records, but ANYONE can edit "wikipedia".

[rpm]

See, the problem here is Toad is quoting from the military records released when Bush signed the proper forms (the ones John Kerry to this day refuses to sign), where as you are quoting from "wikipedia". His source very easily trumps yours, as the military writes their own records, but ANYONE can edit "wikipedia".

I guess you don't understand how to read footnotes.

[alskahawk]

 paraphrasing from Killian memos(Bush's CO)

Feb 72; Bush having trouble landing F-102. Bush bumped back to T-33 trainers. Then bumped back to T-33 co-pilot position. Then begins logging additional simulator time.

May 72: 1stLt Bush ordered to have physical by May 72. Fails to do so. (curious note here; Col Killian approves a transfer request)

July 72: Air force officially rejects Lt Bush's application for reassignment (to Alabama NG)
 (Note; If a aircrew member is not flight ready they usually cannot be transferred to another flight billet)

1Aug 72; Lt Bush officially suspended from flight status for failure to physical. Col Killian calls for flight review board; (note; This is standard procedure. IMO It is probable that May-Aug was a grace time to try to get Bush physical) Col. Killian ends memo with; suggested that we fill this critical billet with a more seasoned pilot from the list of qualified Vietnam pilots that have rotated.”

It goes on and on. Mostly requests for, Officer efficiency training report of Lt Bush. Basically they can't because he wasn't there. And hadn't been there for over a year. He returned late May 73. (2may 73 rating report; curious. Maybe some CYA)

2May73; Here's an oddity(IMO) Rating an officer not in command; The rating says simply “Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit for the period of report. . . .

“He cleared this base on 15 May 1972 and has been performing equivalent duty with the 187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama.”

29June 73: Official document 'Demanding ratings be entered on Lt Bush'. (As Lt Bush returned to unit in May time frame doesn't match requested data. note from source.) (IMO; Officers must have been struggling with this one. Falsifying a document is a very bad idea)

 There are many more memo's these are just a few highlights.

 Ya Wik; is not perfect; And yes Bush's "involvement" with the military was more than 15 months. But really? In a time of war? Hardly a top performer.
 Sorry I've been involved with the military too long to lump him in with Clark, Kerry(who I don't like), McCain or anyone else who honorably served.

 


 
 

[Flatbar]

(the ones John Kerry to this day refuses to sign),

If you're refering to form 180, he signed that in '05 releasing his full military records including his medical records.

Or was that just stinky bait?

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/06/07/kerry_allows_navy_release_of_military_medical_records/

[cat409]

speaking of qualifications for commander-in-chief--so to say. eisenhower was the last general elected to the presidency i can think of--Personnelly-Macarther would have been great and Patton on the right side. jfk was a ptboat commander or capt and was elected pres.>> had the only pt boat cut in half by enmey cruiser-or canoe??. Gen. wesley--is a puppet of the DNP. wouldnt trust him on a bet. yep--you are rite--looks like camolot has resurfaced. happy voting>>>.

[Toad]

From Wik;

I'm sorry; if you want to seriously discuss this you need to use a reputable source. As was pointed out, ANYONE can edit Wiki and the Bushophobics have had a field day with that load of road apples.

Oh, one other little thing..... you didn't answer if YOU had ever served the United States in its military. If you did, what did you accomplish that is on a par with winning wings? What job did you have that would compare to flying the F-102?

The F-102's accident rate was more than three times that of a modern F-16: 13.69 per 100,000 hours. 875 F-102A interceptors were built; 259 or almost 30% - were lost to accidents or enemy action while serving in Vietnam. A total of 15 F-102 fighters were lost in Vietnam. 10 of those were due to accidents, so you can see the accident rate was pretty high. The F-102 claimed the lives of many pilots, including a number stationed at Ellington during Bush's tenure. Of the 875 F-102A production models that entered service, 259 were lost in accidents that killed 70 Air Force and ANG pilots. The early Century series were no picnic to fly; ergonomical cockpits hadn't been invented yet. That's just one of the reasons for Tom Wolfe's statement, it had other inherent design flaws as well.

All that said, Bush has been a poor President and even that's being kind. The only bright spot in his legacy is the appointment of two strict constructionist Supreme Court judges. Other than that he totally squandered a six year conservative hold on the Presidency and the Congress.

But for you to disrespect and make light of his service shows a basic lack of knowledge on your part. IMO.

[BTW]

Wesley Clark is the Democrat's token military
I wouldn't get upset - no one pays attention to him.

[Yeager]

All that said, Bush has been a poor President and even that's being kind.

But for you to disrespect and make light of his service shows a basic lack of knowledge on your part. IMO.

Bush has been a total disappointment but Bush isn't the only one to blame.  the Leaders of the conservative party in congress have been ultra melonters as well.  Thats a
big part of why we have Pelosi and Reid running around making fools of of us all.

[Slamfire]

If his Clark's quote isn't out of line, why is Obama distancing himself from it big time?

Because it's all part of his master plan - his M.O.

- Plan a dirty hatchet job
- select a 3rd party hatchet man to carry it out
- Anticipate the public reaction
- Plan out an official "I disavow this attack" response statement

THEN - and only then, execute the attack.

That way, his more avid/radical supporters see the attack for what it is... and nudge-nudge, wink-wink each
other.  The more moderate supporters breathe a sigh of relief because of his disavowal statement.

All the bases are covered - everyone is happy.  It's his way of getting dirty without getting dirty.  The hatchet job was done, and he can wash his hands.

He's an absolute master manipulator.

Don't get me wrong - I'm no Dubya fan - he came out of the gates strong right after 9/11, but then got led around by other people... then floundered completely.  I'm also not a McCain fan... but I do think McCain is presently the only sane option on the table now.

We're in a sad state.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Clark is entitled to his opinion. He's entitled to give it in order to make Obama look good. He's even entitled to give it at Obama's behest. As such, we're all entitled to give our opinion on his opinion. That's what happens when you use your position or your celebrity status as a soap box. I think he's full of crap, and his opinion is a joke. I also think he did it at Obama's behest. My prediction is that we will continue to see this sort of behavior and these tactics from the Obama camp. I further predict that the campaign that will use race the most is Obama's. They will play the race card at every opportunity, just as often as they will use surrogate mouthpieces to attack McCain and then deny any connection.

[Slamfire]

I further predict that the campaign that will use race the most is Obama's. They will play the race card at every opportunity, just as often as they will use surrogate mouthpieces to attack McCain and then deny any connection.

[DiabloTX]

Clark is entitled to his opinion. He's entitled to give it in order to make Obama look good. He's even entitled to give it at Obama's behest. As such, we're all entitled to give our opinion on his opinion. That's what happens when you use your position or your celebrity status as a soap box. I think he's full of crap, and his opinion is a joke. I also think he did it at Obama's behest. My prediction is that we will continue to see this sort of behavior and these tactics from the Obama camp. I further predict that the campaign that will use race the most is Obama's. They will play the race card at every opportunity, just as often as they will use surrogate mouthpieces to attack McCain and then deny any connection.

If Obama's camp chooses to play the race card it will backfire in their faces.  Those cards may play out in cities but in the vast rolling plains of the American rural landscape it will backfire horribly.  I think that Obama is smarter than that but, being a politician, you never know.

[bj229r]

If you're refering to form 180, he signed that in '05 releasing his full military records including his medical records.

Or was that just stinky bait?

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/06/07/kerry_allows_navy_release_of_military_medical_records/

There was TONS of news about him SIGNING it, but little afterwards:

Kerry signed a Form 180 restricting the release of his military records to the Associated Press, the Boston Globe, and the Los Angeles Times on the condition that the three news organizations would be allowed to extract them for their readers, but must not publish more than a certain amount of them. When I approached these organizations asking to see the records, they refused me access -- just as they have refused anyone else.

Kerry had picked three news organizations that were among those that had done the poorest job pursuing any investigative reporting that might have seen through his charades. They were now the arbiters of whatever they thought was important enough for the unwashed public to read. And it was very little indeed.

very long article link