UK to sign contracts for 2 new super-carriers...

[Dowding]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7486683.stm

I think this is a great move. At long last the mistakes of the 60s and 70s can be reversed and the importance of projected air power is recognised and will be available to the UK armed forces.

I wouldn't mind paying a penny or two more in tax for them too.

[Pei]

I agree that this is what the UK needs if it is going to have any independent military ability outside it's own borders however it is a pity they weren't willing to pay for the steam catapults to go with them. Now they have to buy the VSTOL JSF which will be more expensive to buy and maintain and less capable than it's non VSTOL counterpart. In the long run it will cost more money and they will likely take longer to get operational.

[Rich46yo]

Welcome to the Super-Carrier club. I did not know final design decisions had been made yet on whether or not catapults would be included.

One way or another Britain will be able to whistle up a world class CBG of about the same capability of the USN.

This is an extremely capable design.

[thrila]

I believe the carriers have the ability to have catapults installed.  This is in case the deal with the f35 falls through and the navy resorts to navalising the eurofighter.

Hopefully, i may have the opportunity to serve on one of them.  I recently passed my flight aptitude tests at Cranwell and have my AIB at portsmouth on the 22nd.  Fingers crossed eh.   I've lots of studying to do concerning the RN, so no AH for me for a while.

[Swoop]

I believe the carriers have the ability to have catapults installed. 

No....unfortunately they can't.

The carrier project has been botched about as badly as it could possibly be. We will pay the same as America pays for its hundred-thousand-ton, hundred-aircraft nuclear powered supercarriers. For this money we will get sixty-thousand-ton, forty-aircraft medium sized gas turbine ships.

Gas ships can't have catapult launch - lacking the necessary steam - so our carriers won't be able to launch regular carrier planes or even be retrofitted to include cats at a future date, not without also replacing the gas turbine power system as well, which would probably cost as much as the carrier will in the first place and taking it out of service for years. This will hamstring the critical radar aircraft and make them hugely more expensive. Some kind of unique, custom rotary-wing solution will be needed. This will never fly as high or see as far as a nice cheap Hawkeye (as used by the US Navy, France and many other overseas customers).


So.....for the same price the Yanks pay we're getting cheap arse non-nuclear boats that'll never be able to launch standard carrier aircraft or operate AEW planes anywhere near as effective as the venerable Hawkeye.  Supposedly we're entrusting the air defense of these boats to the new type 45 destroyers. The billion pound ones that don't have a weapon system yet......

Gee thanks Mr Brown.

[Bruv119]

swoop for PM.

[Swoop]

If I ran for election with the manefesto "wednesday babes every day for all" d'ya think I'd win?

[lasersailor184]

You weren't running already?  Crap, I already wrote you in.

[Swoop]

Back to the subject.

There's been some talk of electric catapults but, as I understand it, there are also major technical difficulties and costs involved in retrofitting these to the new boats as well.

And even if they were, by the time someone makes the decision we'll already have spent billions developing some sort of VTOL AEW aircraft for the non-cat era.

[john9001]

saw a interview with the commander of a carrier group, he said steam cats were old tech, and would be replaced by mag-lav launchers, like in amusement park rides, i am not sure if he meant new ships or retrofit older ships.

congrats to the UK. Who is building the ships?

[RTHolmes]

some sort of VTOL AEW aircraft

currently Sea King, to be replaced by Merlins IIRC

the carriers will be built by the usual combination of UK yards.

[Swoop]

Christ.  Sea King AEW's were being used in the Falklands......

not familiar with the Merlin, any good?

[Dowding]

Gas ships can't have catapult launch...

Not true. We have plenty of gas fired powerstations producing high pressure steam. At work we recently had a diesel package boiler that could generate a head of steam to power a huge paper machine.

Secondly, the navalised Eurofighter doesn't need a catapult. The life of the carrier (which is bigger than it needs to be) will extend beyond the F-35's life - it can be modified to catapult launch when needed for a second generation aircraft.

[RTHolmes]

Merlins very effective in ASW role, also used as general purpose transports/medevac etc. FAA pilots like em apparently. I thought they were already used as AEW for fleet defense but apparently we are still using Sea Kings (massively upgraded since Falklands btw)

navalised Typhoon still wouldnt have any STOL capablity so would need catapult and cables


edit: hmmm wiki says naval Typhoon would be STOBAR, cant see how it could lift fully loaded in 250m without a catapult

[Swoop]

OK, so you wanna fit steam cats to an existing gas turbine ship.....where do you put the water tanks, boilers and valving needed?
I get your point, it's possible, but it's not quite as technically feasible as you might think.


And yeah, where'd you hear navalised tiffies wont need a cat?

These Merlin thingies.....they as effective in the role as a Hawkeye?