American commies are for Obama!

[Holden McGroin]

Another example...
 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/04/AR2008070402260.htmlIt was inspiring for Zeyada, 40, a native of Khartoum who is studying for a master's degree and hopes to become a psychologist. She, like many others in the group, said she was "proud to be an American." But she said that when she looked at the cast on the stage -- Bush, Virginia Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D) and a gaggle of federal judges in black robes -- she saw her American dream for her four children, ages 7 to 12, who watched from the crowd.

"My kids have a big chance here," she said, referring to the United States. She pointed toward the stage. "Those men up there, maybe they can be one of them."

[SirLoin]

What's so bad about a totalitaria...  Lets see... Mao, Hitler and your buddy Uncle Joe...  three famous totalitarians.

I can give you maybe 90 million examples of what they did wrong.

Power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutley.

Actually the origins of totalitarianism is religion.

[Joker]

Come on Boroda, get on here and tell us that the people who have been mentioned are all simply "extraordinary" exceptions to your statement, and therefore don't count for the puposes of this discussion. 

They, and many, many more did not come from "the millions" as your grandfather did, right?

You simply choose to ignore anything that doesn't fall in line with your view of things.

" a man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest...."

carry on...

  Joker

[lazs2]

boroda....when I was young in the 70's we had a communism experiment here.. it was truly "from each according to his abilities and to each according to his needs."

I know that you like to think that no pure form of this has ever been tried before... hence the utter and total failure of all communism so far...but...

We had your experiment.. not only was it the pure communist way but.. it was totally voluntary.. everyone wanted to be involved.. we called em communes.. I spent a lot of time as a biker going from one to another on the road.. My brother and his wife lived on several of the larger ones for years.

It was a total and utter failure.. the ones who worked hard eventually got tired of supporting those who realized that they didn't have to do anything or.. did as little as possible... everyone got depressed (like the drunks in your country) and the things fell apart with much bickering and hard feelings..  and rightly so.

communism kills the spirit of the achievers and makes drones and worthless scum of the underachievers and naturally lazy.

A military path is not the kind of opportunity that most people want.  they want to own their own business and their own home and their own car and have the freedom to say what they want and see what they want and go where they please.   living in a government housing complex with another family... often strangers.. is not what we want.

You had to build walls with armed guards to keep your people in..  You couldn't sell your ideals to any country on the planet without using force.

It is simply a really bad idea and it is immoral..  tell me how taking, by force.  from me and giving to someone else is moral.

lazs

[Anaxogoras]

• communism kills the spirit of the achievers and makes drones and worthless scum of the underachievers and naturally lazy.
• tell me how taking, by force.  from me and giving to someone else is moral.

lazs

The first point is so well said I could never improve upon it.

The second begs the question: their answer is that it was never moral for you to have more in the first place.  "Everyone must be equal in achievements, not merely in rights."

[lazs2]

you don't believe that people earn the right to have more for themselves and their families by achievement?   

Not everyone wants the same thing so even doing away with money or housing or whatever would not make things equal.   There will never be an even distribution of work.. not in amount or in content and it will be percieved differently by each.

That is why you have to allow each to seek his own reward whatever that may be.   The reward of one is not the reward of another.    What makes some happy drives others to depression..  how is that equal if you decide  what makes everyone happy?   opportunity is the best that you can offer.   The more and the more varied the opportunity the better for the most people.

it is not complex.

lazs

[Anaxogoras]

read my post again.

[KgB]

communism kills the spirit of the achievers and makes drones and worthless scum of the underachievers and naturally lazy.

Ah!But you wrong:)Great minds do not create(invent) for money.Its a gift to the world,and its up to you Imperialistic bastages to sell it to people:)Edison publicly electrocuted an elephant to convince people that Tesla's Alternating Current  was far too dangerous to use.The war against Tesla led him to become involved in the development and promotion of the electric chair.That's a hell of a spirit eh:)?

[Holden McGroin]

Ah!But you wrong:)Great minds do not create(invent) for money.Its a gift to the world,and its up to you Imperialistic bastages to sell it to people:)

So if it weren't for us imperialistic bastiges, the world would have one pair of telephones (One for Bell, one for Watson), one Apple computer, one pop up toaster, one TV,   Damn us jingoistic mass producers for profit just screw it all up don't we? 

[KgB]

So if it weren't for us imperialistic bastiges, the world would have one pair of telephones (One for Bell, one for Watson), one Apple computer, one pop up toaster, one TV,   Damn us jingoistic mass producers for profit just screw it all up don't we? 

You lost me

[Holden McGroin]

You lost me

It is not the initial invention that makes life better, it is the mass production of that invention in the competitive marketplace that puts affordable products in our hands.

Bell invented the telephone (ironically) in a lifelong effort to help the hearing impaired, but it was for profit companies like ATT which mass produced the telephone and strung wires everywhere that made telecommunications commonplace.

[lazs2]

also.. it matters not if a few eggheads are cloistered in a world of acadamia.. the commies did that pretty well.. we do it pretty well.. I doubt that most of the 1 in a million eggheads who do pure research would know if they were in a lab in America or Soviet Russia..

But.. they are only a handful.. not the masses.. not the people.   The rest of us have a variety of needs and hopes and communism allows for very little opportunity.

communism plays down to the most worthless.. the most worthless thinks that living in a cube in a state slum with another family is pretty darn good living... everyone else forced to do the same hates it.   the most worthless thinks that the few things they are allowed to buy is plenty.. the rest are misserable.   A few think being locked in with walls and guards and gun towers and not being able to visit or live in other countries is just fine... the rest...

Killing commies is humane and moral.   commies are a threat to our very humanity.

lazs

[Anaxogoras]

Killing commies is humane and moral.   commies are a threat to our very humanity.

Oh come on now, you're just trolling.

Remember, freedom and the open society are the best defense against those who would quash them.

[Boroda]

It is not the initial invention that makes life better, it is the mass production of that invention in the competitive marketplace that puts affordable products in our hands.

Bell invented the telephone (ironically) in a lifelong effort to help the hearing impaired, but it was for profit companies like ATT which mass produced the telephone and strung wires everywhere that made telecommunications commonplace.

"Competitive marketplace" is the thing that prevents inventions from spreading wide. Any totalitarian regime will organize mass-production much more effective and at cheaper price then any "free market" monopoly. Totalitarian Russian Empire got all it's large warships equipped with wireless telegraph by the time Marconi got his patent. Russian Navy was the first to use ECM in May 1905 at the battle of Tsushima

Just compare Soviet and American tanks before the War

[Boroda]

Oh come on now, you're just trolling.

I think Lazs really believes it. He belongs to a different humanity.

Remember, freedom and the open society are the best defense against those who would quash them.

Exactly what I think. Totalitarian society beats Western "democracies" in this fields.

Nazi Germany was a Western democracy. Maoist China was a classic totalitarian state. When I speak about "totalitarianism" I mean the society where I had pleasure to live: good old USSR, and, maybe some "People's Democracies".