Author Topic: Useing just main guns on 109s  (Read 1212 times)

Offline spit16nooby

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Useing just main guns on 109s
« on: July 04, 2008, 01:54:31 PM »
I was wondering what you guys think about just useing the main guns on the 109g-2 and k-4.  I think that it makes more sense on the g-2 since the 7.7s are pretty useless unless they get a lot of hits, but on the k-4 the 13mm guns have some use but some people say it messes up your 30mm aim so what are your opinions.

Offline AirFlyer

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Re: Useing just main guns on 109s
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2008, 02:09:51 PM »
Not quite the same plane but I never had a problem using my A6M5b's cowlings (7.7mm and 13mm) to kill planes. It does take some time and you really need to move in on your target to get a steady, long burst. But usually if I have them I'll use cannon to rip planes apart since the longer you take to kill a plane the more E you drain and usually the easier it becomes for someone to kill you. All in all there probably best left to scarring planes that are extending away from you or on shots where your not sure your going to hit but don't mind wasting a few MG for a lucky hit.
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Offline Banshee7

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Re: Useing just main guns on 109s
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2008, 02:27:41 PM »
if im in the K4 or G14 i just shoot the tater gun, get all the kills i can with that, then maybe use some of the 13mms.  But i never fire them at the same time.  If im in a G2/G6/F4 i fire all guns
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Offline Scotch

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Re: Useing just main guns on 109s
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2008, 04:45:56 PM »
I usually fire them separately. I use the 13mm on the k4 all the time. They're good for a few kills. Just focus on the wing root or cockpit once you're saddled up. You can also set zekes on fire from pretty much any angle.
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Offline Yenny

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Re: Useing just main guns on 109s
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2008, 05:23:52 PM »
I fire all gun together on any plane, except the one with the 30mms and 20mms. For long range I tend to fire 1 or 2 30mms at a time to walk my rounds. For short range let say 200 yards and under, I fire all my guns.
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Useing just main guns on 109s
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2008, 05:57:07 PM »
I fire all guns all the time in all fighters except the Hurri IID where shell placement is at a premium.
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Offline Adonai

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Re: Useing just main guns on 109s
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2008, 08:58:46 AM »
I was wondering what you guys think about just using the main guns on the 109g-2 and k-4.  I think that it makes more sense on the g-2 since the 7.7s are pretty useless unless they get a lot of hits, but on the k-4 the 13mm guns have some use but some people say it messes up your 30mm aim so what are your opinions.

I used to single fire my 20/30mm but honestly those 7.7's are not useless, I start out by spraying my 7.7's until i score hits and follow up with all guns - same for the 30mm, generally I'm so close to them I do not need to single fire but rather fire all my guns to ensure a kill. I have a few kills by just 7.7's alone, these are extremely fast firing and enough lead in a wing of a plane will take it right off 50-100 rounds top.
Granted that isn't 1 shot from a 30mm but when you fly the f4/g2 a lot you learn to use them to your advantage.

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Useing just main guns on 109s
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2008, 02:09:34 PM »
It depends on the situation.  In any 109 with a MG151 20mm cannon, I fire it at the same time as the machine guns because their ballistics are not too different.  With the 30mm gun, I sometimes fire it independently when I have a good clear shot.  On the other hand, I will fire the 30mm with the machine guns for a snap shot simply to increase my chances of scoring a hit.  There's few things more frustrating for a K-4 pilot than to watch the enemy fly between the shells of a 30mm burst unscathed.  in the K-4 I have shot down numerous aircraft with only the machine guns.  You have to get a good long tracking shot, but if you hit a critical place, like a wing-tip, those 13mm guns can do some damage.  I don't fly the G-2 or F-4 very much, but I spray the 7mm guns like crazy simply because there's so much ammo and it's extra weight if you don't use it.

Something should be said about using the machine guns to line up a shot with the 30mm cannon.  We frequently hear that this should never be done because of ballistics issues, but that is only true at longer distances.  At very close ranges and in the heat of a twisting fight, I frequently use the machine guns in the K-4 to set up a 30mm burst simply to get an idea of where my shells will go.  This is especially helpful when you do not have the horizon in view because the lack of orientation can make predicting shell trajectory very difficult, e.g. when your noise is pointing nearly straight up but you're using a lot of rudder.
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Offline Agent360

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Re: Useing just main guns on 109s
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2008, 09:34:34 PM »
For learing purposes shoot only the 30 mm. The mg traces obscure the path of the taters. Even though both mg and tater will "converge" or hit at the same place this will only happen if you are at 0 G's and very steady. If you are pulling any G at all the taters will fall exponentially behind the mg rounds.

I learned this way. It took some time for me to understand how much the taters drop.

In more advanced gunnery like d400+ deflection and danger close snap shots its more about the timing not the deflection.

But to get a good "mental aim" of the taters you have to spend some time shooting the taters only.

I use the MG's alot for intimidating targets into turning or making mistakes. It helps to send tracers past their view and ping the plane up. It amps up the desperation some. I very rarely end up shooting all my mg rounds. Well thats bad.  I died with ammo. Shoot em up with the mg's. I still can't fire all of me to this day....heheh...im just a tater dweeb.

I usually fire them seperatly. But when I know "the shot" is coming I fire both.

Two 17mm ( 50 cal) guns aint nothing to poo poo. They can kill an engine, a pilot, blow off vert stabs and rudders...etc. This then make it even easier to get your tater shot.




Offline Adonai

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Re: Useing just main guns on 109s
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2008, 09:46:49 AM »
Generally my rule of thumb for a 109 has always been just get closer then 200 to your enemy and your fine. Again it all depends the situation, but I prefer to get dangerously close before firing, I believe 20% of time i fire at 400 out and 80% under 200 even 0 sometimes.

Only takes a tap of the trigger in early 109 series and single 30mm will take a piece off a plane. It does take plenty of practice like m00t says, once you get better you can fire at 400 out and snapshots and score hits.

Offline killnu

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Re: Useing just main guns on 109s
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2008, 02:16:01 PM »
I have always fired both at same time...I just set up convergence so they both hit at same point. I normally dont stick around when out of 30mm either...so really no point for me to try to conserve MG rounds.
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Offline hammer

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Re: Useing just main guns on 109s
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2008, 02:28:54 PM »
I have always fired both at same time...I just set up convergence so they both hit at same point. I normally dont stick around when out of 30mm either...so really no point for me to try to conserve MG rounds.
me too... but agent's post made me think maybe we need to be able to select which guns fire tracers.

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Offline Thing

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Re: Useing just main guns on 109s
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2008, 10:16:10 PM »
Agent is always spraying me with 13mm and they work just fine.   :D



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Offline Messiah

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Re: Useing just main guns on 109s
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2008, 10:17:04 PM »
I fire both at the same time, but there are times when I have just a perfect shot on a slow target and use the 13mm's only to save my taters.
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Offline Adonai

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Re: Useing just main guns on 109s
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2008, 10:52:39 AM »
I posted a forum post about some films I have in a 109, you can check those out to see how I fly.