Author Topic: The Icon Dillema (Read 731 times)

Jekyll · « **Reply #30 on:** February 05, 2001, 03:51:00 AM »

Had a bunch of ex-squaddies join me Saturday night for a H2H session. Friendly collisions were on, killshooter off, friendly icons only.

On my 17" monitor I had no problems at all fighting against enemy aircraft. In fact, ACM became much more intense.

Situation in point: I'm in a 190, and I've just been bounced by a P51. He's sitting on my tail, probably within 200 yds. I did a high G snap roll and forced him to overshoot, dived into his blind spot and killed him when he zoomed.

Now you could NEVER pull that kind of maneuver with icons on. As soon as the enemy aircraft saw the range rapidly closing, he'd chop throttle/go into a snap roll of his own, and be back on your tail. To say nothing of the fact that in the MA he would have been shooting from 500yds out, and would probably have nailed me before I even saw him.

It was so much fun in fact that we're doing it again this Saturday. Eastern Front this time ... 109s and 190s against La5s and Yaks in the Russian terrain.

Should be a hoot

Tac · « **Reply #31 on:** February 05, 2001, 09:39:00 AM »

Exactly my point Jekyll.

Hey, any chance of sneaking my worthless hide on your next H2H?

Vermillion · « **Reply #32 on:** February 05, 2001, 10:23:00 AM »

Serious question.

If "no/extremely low icon" flying and a HA style arena is such a great thing, why has the WB's HA been such an abysmal failure?

Low numbers even in prime time, completely empty in nonstandard times.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

Paxil · « **Reply #33 on:** February 05, 2001, 10:56:00 AM »

Actually... I think the no icon = more realistic is a joke. IRL I can tell what direction a plane at 30,000 feet is traveling from the ground... yet in a 'no icon' AH I wouldn't be able to at a few K. Is that more realistic? And yes... I am aware IRL planes don't have icons... but this is a simulation... and in my opionion... the icons make up for what you can't display with current technology. Losing them would certainly make AH more difficult and less realistic. Perhaps it would be more fun... but it wouldn't be more realistic.

popeye · « **Reply #34 on:** February 05, 2001, 11:19:00 AM »

Geez Verm, Paxil....there ya go with that logic stuff again...

Westy · « **Reply #35 on:** February 05, 2001, 12:35:00 PM »

Hey! Semi transparant icons!!

<shoves socks in own mouth>

Tac · « **Reply #36 on:** February 05, 2001, 01:29:00 PM »

Verm: because people go to the arena with most numbers. Its group behaviour. That is why I wouldnt want AH to have more than 1 arena. Split the numbers and the fun goes down the drain.

"but this is a simulation"

With icons its a game. Without enemy icons it does become a simulation imho. Try and fly in a H2H or even try in the TA without enemy icons and see the difference

Westy! Nooo! We want blinking bright pink icons with psychodelic twisting twirls

Paxil · « **Reply #37 on:** February 05, 2001, 02:13:00 PM »

How about a big 'ENEMY THIS WAY' sign that floats in front of the plane? =) JK... seriously though... how about having the snap views a certain amount of time... so you couldn't glance back there every other second while flying. Maybe a 1/2 or 1/4 second delay? Would make it tough to keep looking back all the time. Also... wouldn't mind icons disappearing in areas where you wouldn't be seeing a plane in RL... like from the sun.

popeye · « **Reply #38 on:** February 05, 2001, 03:11:00 PM »

Both good ideas Paxil. Maybe make the delay proportional to distance. The farther away a plane is, the longer you have to "stare" at it to determine rate of closure.

The sun glare thing is still on the HTC list. Hope to see it soon.

Jekyll · « **Reply #39 on:** February 05, 2001, 04:16:00 PM »

Quote

IRL I can tell what direction a plane at 30,000 feet is traveling from the ground...

Well, you could do exactly the same in AH with no icons Paxil. Standing on the ground places you at a fixed reference point, and the aircraft above you is travelling in a different plane of travel, so obviously you could easily tell which direction it is headed. Duh!

Same thing occurs in the arena, at 'beyond icon' ranges. You see a dot in the distance and you can tell whether it is travelling across your path or towards you long before the icon comes up.

And Verm, you know full well why the WB HA has low numbers. Because it became a furball arena. You'd see a dot, not know whether it was friend or foe, and dive down on it only to find it was a fellow countryman. AH has the means to overcome this problem, the 'Friendly Icon Only' setting.

Tac. Dont know whether our timezones would be compatible for you. But if you're interested, 'Ostfront H2H' will be kicking off 11am UTC on Saturday. Check a timezone converter to convert UTC to your local time zone. Probably early morning for you I'd think.

Paxil · « **Reply #40 on:** February 05, 2001, 04:39:00 PM »

Actually Jekyll... on my system I wouldn't see a dot at that distance (what is dot range... 10K?)... and if there was... it wouldn't move for minutes on end... then when it finally did... it would jump who knows where... and btw... you can't tell what direction the plane is traveling by looking at what direction the nose is pointing... which is pretty darn hard to ascertain from a dot.

Peace

Tac · « **Reply #41 on:** February 06, 2001, 01:39:00 AM »

My wingman and I followed a dot for 2 sectors until we cought up with it, we didnt know where he was going or what range he was at but we could manage to tell his direction by flying level and seeing where the dot drifted to. If it drifted to the right, then he was going to the right and we adjusted our noses accordingly. When he drifted to the left the same thing. The dots do grow a bit in size as you get closer. The slicky 190 decided to fight us in a cloud layer and a fun fight evolved.. he had led us to his high alt 190 wingman!.

For almost all cases you will know where those dots are going, otherwise you would now never be able to engage them. Cons DO appear as dots waaay before the icon comes up. And usually at 7 or 6k range, if you zoom your view you will notice its not a dot anymore, its a little plane.

You are correctly judging direction and range of a dot right now paxil, pay attention to what you do when you see a dot that you know on dar its enemy.