Forget the 50 mpg carb; this guy has a 80 mpg Mustang

[soda72]

i saw this site before. they are kick ass.....

but the fact still remains with electric vehicles. we're not cleaning anything up at all. we're just moving the source.

 how's that helping anything?

 i realize i could be wrong on that, but it's just a thought.......

I'm not sure about the California situation but typically if people charge their cars during off peek hours there is excess capacity available at that point so until the excess capacity is all used up you would not see additional pollution. 

I think the long term goal would also include having existing power plants move towards clean coal technologies,  or building of new power plants that use thermal solar, solar, wind, and/or nuclear which would also reduce pollution levels.

Even if the above does not happen what I'm more interested in is reducing our dependency on imported oil.   IMO this out ways any other benefit that may come from using EV's.  If I could fill my car up with hydrogen, or natural gas I would be all for it as long as it reduces our dependency on oil.   I'm tired of spending money that helps fund the communist revolution in Venezuela or countries that sponsor terrorism.  We've been getting the short end of the stick on this since the 1960's and it's time to move on..

I really hope the EV technology will work out, it seems to be the best long term fit for us.  But unless they can get the price down to where it will compete with internal combustion engine(ICE) vehicles it will not happen.  The day I can buy a Tesla Roadster for 30K without the government subsidizing it will be the day ICE will be dead.

[moot]

I'm willing to bet ICE won't die, for the sake of motorsports.  Petrol ICEs maybe.

CAP - Cutting car pollution by changing them to electric will move the pollution to energy production sites, which if nothing else will be easier to control than x hundred million polluting cars scattered over the road system. 

[Hornet33]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/01/smallbusiness/blacklight.fsb/index.htm?postversion=2008070210

Check this outfit out. Blacklight Power Inc. http://www.blacklightpower.com/index.shtml

I've spent a couple of days reading over the information on their website and what this company is doing is nothing short of incredible. They are looking to have a plant online within the next year or so.

[moot]

Blacklight is bogus.

[CAP1]

I'm willing to bet ICE won't die, for the sake of motorsports.  Petrol ICEs maybe.

CAP - Cutting car pollution by changing them to electric will move the pollution to energy production sites, which if nothing else will be easier to control than x hundred million polluting cars scattered over the road system. 

EASIER,  yes. but also much more expensive. that's the main reason they've been taking aim at cleaning up cars to begin with.

 if it still works like i remember, when NJ(for instance) cleans its air by XX amount, they earn carbon credits(or clean air credits i'm not sure what they call them now). NJ then in turn sells these credits to power companies, or manufatuurers, allowing them to continue to function without cleaning up.

 so basicly, nothing will change.

 if it does, when the govt finally starts forcing the power companies to clean up, it's going to raise their costs, and they're only going to pass that on to us, the consumers. at that point, we'll be in the same boat.

[Hornet33]

Blacklight is bogus.

Then why is a power company in Delaware signing on with them to install their new power generator system? The installation is supposed be completed within the next 12 months and the system online providing power to the grid within 6 months after that.

Blacklight isn't some fly by night outfit. They've been in buisness for almost 20 years, all of it in the hitech application fields. Lasers, hydrogen power, optics, ect. Read the bio's of the scientists and engineers that work there. These are some highly inteligent folks working on this thing.

[soda72]

EASIER,  yes. but also much more expensive. that's the main reason they've been taking aim at cleaning up cars to begin with.

 if it still works like i remember, when NJ(for instance) cleans its air by XX amount, they earn carbon credits(or clean air credits i'm not sure what they call them now). NJ then in turn sells these credits to power companies, or manufatuurers, allowing them to continue to function without cleaning up.

 so basicly, nothing will change.

 if it does, when the govt finally starts forcing the power companies to clean up, it's going to raise their costs, and they're only going to pass that on to us, the consumers. at that point, we'll be in the same boat.

Cost may rise, but that cost will be dollars spent here in the US instead of some other country hostile to our way of life.  Plus this will give us more control over our energy policy, where incentives could be given to increase capacity to reduce costs.  Our current situation does not allow us to do that.  We have no control over what OPEC does.  The president has to fly out to Saudi Arabia and beg them to increase production.  We can't continue to do that long term.  The Middle east is way to unstable and if something were to happen there that spins out of control we may find that the costs are much higher than a small increase in our electric bills.

[moot]

Then why is a power company in Delaware signing on with them to install their new power generator system? The installation is supposed be completed within the next 12 months and the system online providing power to the grid within 6 months after that.

Blacklight isn't some fly by night outfit. They've been in buisness for almost 20 years, all of it in the hitech application fields. Lasers, hydrogen power, optics, ect. Read the bio's of the scientists and engineers that work there. These are some highly inteligent folks working on this thing.

I did what you're doing now, almost 10 years ago.  They're just another crank investor bait, just like Steorn and countless others.  Did you notice Mills' "Grand unified theory of classical quantum physics"?  It's the basis (or bootsrap'd to look like it) for his whole energy scam and doesn't even stand up mathematicaly.  There might be something going on in his patented cells, but at best he has no idea what's going on and is just using it to (you guessed it) rake in more suckers' investments.

[Hornet33]

You forgot one little thing there Moot, Blacklight has had independant third parties come in and check their system out. Folks that said what they are doing is impossible have seen it and said that even though it's mathmatically impossible by current physics standards, it works. So if it works is Blacklight fooling everyone (people with PHD is phyics and mathmatics) or have they discovered something totaly new and are re writing the book?

The theory's of quantum physics that are used today are still in their infancy. No one knows with 100% certainty what can and cannot be done in regard to physics. Blacklight is punching a hole in alot of theory's that people believe can't be broken.

Smart people happen everywhere and when they show people something that nobody believes is possible, the majority of the believers of the status quo will try to shoot it down. Kinda like the Earth is flat theory, or the Earth is the center of the universe, or the sound barrier can't be broken.

The folks that are saying this breakthrough violates the laws of physics and is impossible might not be right. The Earth is round, we're not at the center of the universe, and the sound barrier was broken.


As far as you doing what I'm doing now 10 years ago, I assume your talking about building a hydroxy booster, and I'm also going to assume that it didn't work for you? If you don't mind can you tell me what you tried and what results you got?

[moot]

No I didn't forget anything. There's something up too, in one of the cold fusion schemes, and no one can explain that either. If it can't be explained, it can't be produced by anything else than groping in the dark, and everything else downstream of that, experimentaly and commercialy, is up to chance.
The amount of energy they're getting the last time I saw, was barely above noise.  It wasn't exceptional.

What I did 10 years ago was notice someone saying something different, looked into it, and found that not only was there the usualy snubs and plain ignoring by the majority of specialists, there were also a few people (who are "smart" if that's your criteria) who pointed out some pretty ridiculous flaws in the math and physics behind his whole scheme.
Every teacher, high or low in academia, that I showed his papers to (everything but the actual meat of the paper removed from sight) was rolling his eyes either halfway thru it or after they skipped to the math.

So all I see is some guy with something acting funky but not producing any exceptional power, with no math nor physics to back up any of his explanations for it.  He's gotten all this investment for at least 10 long years, and hasn't come up with anything but a "Grand unified theory of classical quantum physics" which not only fails to explain his experimental funkiness, but also fails to actualy unite classical and quantum physics.  Which you DO realize is something of a holy grail, right?

There's a whole lot of people who are "punching holes" into accepted models, like the surfer guy a while back.  These assertions take time to be proven true or false or something in between.  So far Mills' "Grand unified theory" has racked up way more negative assessments than any other hypothesis does, in average.

I think you just got caught in the hopeful enthusiasm.  That means nothing, scientificaly.  What matters is for the actual theoretical and practical science to be flogged till it breaks.

[CAP1]

You forgot one little thing there Moot, Blacklight has had independant third parties come in and check their system out. Folks that said what they are doing is impossible have seen it and said that even though it's mathmatically impossible by current physics standards, it works. So if it works is Blacklight fooling everyone (people with PHD is phyics and mathmatics) or have they discovered something totaly new and are re writing the book?

The theory's of quantum physics that are used today are still in their infancy. No one knows with 100% certainty what can and cannot be done in regard to physics. Blacklight is punching a hole in alot of theory's that people believe can't be broken.

Smart people happen everywhere and when they show people something that nobody believes is possible, the majority of the believers of the status quo will try to shoot it down. Kinda like the Earth is flat theory, or the Earth is the center of the universe, or the sound barrier can't be broken.

The folks that are saying this breakthrough violates the laws of physics and is impossible might not be right. The Earth is round, we're not at the center of the universe, and the sound barrier was broken.


As far as you doing what I'm doing now 10 years ago, I assume your talking about building a hydroxy booster, and I'm also going to assume that it didn't work for you? If you don't mind can you tell me what you tried and what results you got?

wasn't there a day when it was "mathmatically impossible to fly? or to leave the atmosphere?

i know i'm over-simplyfing, but it seems about the same. if we all continue to think and experiment within current logic, and knowledge, we'll never get anywhere.

[Hornet33]

Whatever Moot. You obviously haven't read everything about what they are doing and the published results, verified and backed up by third party studies.

Also if they system wasn't proven to work, why would a power company invest the time, money, and effort to convert one of their power plants over to this system for full scale real world trials? That is not a goal for them, it's actually happening now. In the next year and a half they will be online with this system and they are planning to go into full scale production within the next 2 years.

They have a small number of investors that have put over $60 million into this. Investors that have worked in the power production industry for many years and know what they are talking about. A crackpot who doesn't know what he's talking about and can't prove his theory's isn't going to be able to pull in that kind of investment from the type of people that have invested in Blacklight.

I think they have something revolutionary here. Something that will turn the world on it's ears if they're given half a chance to run with it.

[moot]

You're just along for the ride based on some social dynamics gut feeling Hornet. 

Something that will turn the world on it's ears if they're given half a chance to run with it.

.. You mean like 50 M$ and counting?  Where are the hydrinos?

[Toad]

You notice there hasn't been anything on Pelmear and his Mustang since early July? What happened to the monitored test at the drag strip?

All quiet on the 100 mpg Mustang front.

[Bones]

Hornet, I hate to tell you this, but there have been plenty of investors who have been fooled by a good marketing plan.  Here is the situation.  An investor sees this marketing spiel.  Decides to have it checked out.  The investor has no clue what he is doing, but hires someone he thinks does to tell him what the real skinny is.

Now, the guy who is supposed to be giving the investor the straight scoop is concerned the Blacklight guys might be on to something so he hedges his bet.  Basically giving a vague recommendation to the investor.  The investor decides it is worth the risk and plunges into it.

There was an Internet appliance once that was used in a marketing plan to drain $40M dollars from investors.  The investors never saw a nickle.

I have witnessed these types of shenigans first hand.  I wish I could be that inscrutable.