Forget the 50 mpg carb; this guy has a 80 mpg Mustang

[Nashwan]

I don't know what to believe about this movie about Free Energy - No Fuel Magnetic Motor,

It's the latest in a very long line of free energy fakes. The most famous in recent years was by an Irish company called Steorn. They paid £100,000 for a full page advert in the Economist, and promised a public display in London. The display went ahead, the machine didn't work, they blamed "bearing problems" and promised another demonstration. That was a couple of years ago.

Sadly there are always people ready to invest in such schemes.

Well if anyone can make an electric car work it would be these guys they seem to have the right idea:
Tesla Electric Car
The unveiling of the Tesla Motors Electric Car
Tesla Electric Car Segment - BBC World



However it might meet the same fate as GM's EV1..
Who Killed the Electric Car?

Probably not. The batteries are better than the EV1's, and the car is aimed at a small niche.

It does illustrate the problems with battery powered cars, though.

The Tesla is based on the Lotus Elise. It's even made by Lotus in the same factory. Performance is similar to the Elise.

The Tesla costs $50,000 - $70,000 more, though.

If you buy a Lotus Elise the $50,000 saving will buy you over 12,000 gallons of gasoline at today's prices. The Elise does about 25 miles to the gallon, so 12,000 gallons is enough for about 300,000 miles. Neither car will last that long, so you save money on the Elise.

If you stick the $50,000 saving in the bank and buy fuel with the interest, you save even more. $50,000 at 5% will give you $2,500 a year. That's enough for  600 gallons, and a range of 15,000 miles. Most cars don't drive 15,000 miles a year, so the interest alone will pay for your fuel.

Either way the electric car costs far more to run, even if you assume the electricity to power it is free.

There're two reasons electric cars haven't caught on, and neither is anything to do with oil company conspiracies. First, they are less convenient than oil powered cars. The Tesla has less range than the Lotus, takes much longer to refuel, and is much heavier, so the driving experience isn't as good.

The second is cost. Electric cars still cost far more than a comparable oil car, even counting the running costs.

Nashwan, have you heard anything about eestor's batteries?

Haven't heard any news from them for quite some time. That's not a good sign. The market for a battery/capacitor that can power a reasonable, cheap electric car is huge. The fact that they haven't announced manufacturing deal with major industry players suggests that they haven't got anything ready for mainstream yet.

According to Wikipedia, they have signed a deal with Lockheed, but of course the military requirements are very, very different from the car buying public's.

[Hornet33]

Just out of curiosity, how does that calculation work with the new "wonder" fuel, hydrogen and oxygen, made at about 1 to 2 liters per hour in the vehicle?

If you have a HHO booster that is only putting out 1 to 2 liters per hour you REALLY screwed something up. Mine on the bench right now is generating 1.5 liters a minute and I haven't finished conditioning my core yet. Right now I'm only running at 10amps cold and after a 30 minute on time I'm drawing around 14amps.

By the way that calculation wont work with the HHO because your burning 2 different gases at the same time. Try and factor in the different octane levels for gas, HHO output from a booster, ambient air temp and pressure all effect engine performance. Simple formula Holdin is using that doesn't even come close to taking into account ALL the variables to reach an accurate conclusion.

[Bones]

While the battery needs a lot of work, the electric motor also needs a lot more work to improve its efficiency as well.

There are some ways to drastically improve an electric motor's efficiency.  Someday, someone who has the money will figure it out again, and it might get funded.  I won't hold my breath.

[soda72]

Maybe the volt will do it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgTcdfkihE4

[moot]

"No Fuel Magnetic Motor?"
It's the latest in a very long line of free energy fakes. The most famous in recent years was by an Irish company called Steorn. They paid £100,000 for a full page advert in the Economist, and promised a public display in London. The display went ahead, the machine didn't work, they blamed "bearing problems" and promised another demonstration. That was a couple of years ago.

Yep. Apparently they were getting those results from incorrect measurements. 
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Lutec1000/#Negative_Result_Reports
Although Steorn seemed like a scam from the start, rather than mistaken inventors.

Haven't heard any news from them for quite some time. That's not a good sign. The market for a battery/capacitor that can power a reasonable, cheap electric car is huge. The fact that they haven't announced manufacturing deal with major industry players suggests that they haven't got anything ready for mainstream yet.

According to Wikipedia, they have signed a deal with Lockheed, but of course the military requirements are very, very different from the car buying public's.

Thanks, that's all I'd heard too, but as Toad found they're supposed to get peer reviewed in a few weeks. 

[Holden McGroin]

If you have a HHO booster that is only putting out 1 to 2 liters per hour you REALLY screwed something up. Mine on the bench right now is generating 1.5 liters a minute and I haven't finished conditioning my core yet.

At what pressure is your hydrogen produced / measured?

[Holden McGroin]

Just out of curiosity, how does that calculation work with the new "wonder" fuel, hydrogen and oxygen, made at about 1 to 2 liters per hour in the vehicle?

I have not found the actual number, but mass energy density of hydrogen is like 3 to 4 times better than gasoline.  So instead of 18,400 btu / lb it is somewher near 60,000 to 80,000 btu per lb.

But remember, any conversion from one form of energy to another consumes more useful energy than it yields. If it could do the opposite, creating energy out of nothing, you could create a perpetual-motion machine violating the laws of physics. Conversion losses are unavoidable.  So you would be more heat efficient if you just took the energy you use to make the hydrogen and burned it in your car directly.

The only reason hydrogen makes sense is if you made hydrogen at home with solar of wind.  ie. you can store the wind / solar energy as hydrogen and use it later in your car.

Takes a couple of acres of solar to keep up with the energy needs of an average car though.

[Bones]

I do not think you need acres of land.  One of my little projects is generating about 3000W@120V in a 10 square foot area.  However, it is a little different than what is commercially available.

I have not taken any time to calculate how much hydrogen could be produced as I think hydrogen powered cars is something not really practical yet.

I could probably push the output to 4500W with little effort, but it served the purpose I needed at the time.

[Nashwan]

While the battery needs a lot of work, the electric motor also needs a lot more work to improve its efficiency as well.

Larger electric motors are already pretty efficient, over 90% in most cases. Tesla quote 85 - 95% for their motor.

[Hornet33]

At what pressure is your hydrogen produced / measured?

My booster at "full" operation and going through two bubblers is running right at 5psi on the core. Now my measurements are done using the water displacement method. I'll fill a 2 liter soda bottle with water, place that in a bucket of water and turn it upside down. The output line from the booster goes into the bottle and I time with a stopwatch how long it takes to displace 2 liters of water. Right now I'm getting right at 1.5 liters a minute of HHO gas at 1 atmosphere outside pressure and 5psi booster pressure.

[Bones]

Larger electric motors are already pretty efficient, over 90% in most cases. Tesla quote 85 - 95% for their motor.

Once you control the forces that make an electric motor inefficient, then you will have an efficient electric motor.  There is not a motor design available to the public which accomplishes that.  If there was such a design available to the public, there would be a patent filed for the design.

[Maverick]

Hornet, Typo there I meant to put in liuters per minute. Now how many liters per minute of air does the car flow per minute?

[Hornet33]

Hornet, Typo there I meant to put in liuters per minute. Now how many liters per minute of air does the car flow per minute?

That's a real good question and unfortantly not one I can answer. Even if I could find the factory specs for my engine, they wouldn't matter too much since I have an aftermarket K&N intake and filter. The only way I could messure that would be to use a scan guage and get a reading off the MAF sensor and then convert the units of messurement. Too much math involved for all that not to mention the $160 for a Scan Guage II system. I might end up getting one later on down the road though just because they are a handy thing to have but for now I'll have to do without.

One thing to remember though is the booster isn't trying to replace incoming air with HHO, nor is it trying to replace regular gas. It mearly adds a small amount of highly combustable gasses to the regular fuel/air mix that allows the regular gas to burn more efficiently, cleaner, and use less regular gas for the same power settings on the engine, thus increasing the MPG of the engine.

No one has ever claimed that an "onboard hydroxy on demand" booster system can or will replace regular fossil fuels and for most people the idea of having to keep a constant eye on the thing wouldn't sit well either. People want to hop in their cars and go without having to worry about checking electrolite levels, water levels, current draw, and temp of the reactor chamber.

For people like me that like to experiment with new things that show potential, well here I am building one and I'm excited to see what this thing can do for my truck. Lots of research, tons of reading, and a little blood, sweat, and tears involved. 22gauge SS sheet metal can cut good when it gets loose in the drill press

[Maverick]

I didn't figure using the browns gas would take the place of gasoline. I am extremely skeptical of the claims regarding the use of the conversion gadgets on gasoline vehicles. To date I have not seen any 3rd party analysis of the results of using the gadget. I doubt that adding a 1.5 to 2.0+ liter per minute of hydrogen and oxygen will have anything but a trivial impact on the hundreds of cubic feet per minute of air flow through a vehicle engine. That large amount of air also contains more than a trace of oxygen so adding a trivial amount (.5 to .75 liter per minute of oxygen as a third part of the browns gas) to the amount of ambient oxygen is not likely to have a significant impact. To prove that it does would require the use of a lab dyno analysis and no one seems to be willing to do that.

[lasersailor184]

Larger electric motors are already pretty efficient, over 90% in most cases. Tesla quote 85 - 95% for their motor.

True, but the energy conversion from the source to electricity is not.