Pickers and runners please help me understand...

[Steve]

Zazen, there is a distinct difference between using a planes strengths and leaving the fight returning only after the con is otherwise engaged.  I wouldn't expect a K4 to voluntarily turn with Spit IX, but running miles away to save your hide is ludicrous.   

I will say again, using your team mates as bait to better your score deplorable.

(BTW Zazen, you spelled ridiculous wrong, Steve will be along shortly to call you a dolt, I am okay with it)

Zazen you dolt!   

[Zazen13]

Zazen, there is a distinct difference between using a planes strengths and leaving the fight returning only after the con is otherwise engaged.  I wouldn't expect a K4 to voluntarily turn with Spit IX, but running miles away to save your hide is ludicrous.   

If you've put him in a position where you've negated his energy advantage to the point you've forced him to disengage you've scored a victory of sorts. Part of the frustration for the slow turner is that, often, that moral victory of stalemating a faster opponent is not consummated by a kill. Forcing a poor turner to the point where his only viable decisions are to disengage or fight a turner's fight is a victory. The whole premise of flying a poor turner, what I coin an initiative fighter, is to always have as many options as possible. As a TnB'er your goal is to reduce those options as much as possible, hopefully to the point where he can no longer disengage, leaving no option but to turn with you. You can't realistically expect a poorer turner to continue to fight on your terms, where you have all the advantages,  if he has an option to do otherwise

[Scca]

Sure I do.  You didn't like the way the other guy flew, your SA was overwhelmed by trying to track 2 targets and you got picked. So you came to the BBS and, with your diaper full of goo, cried like one of my two year olds because someone isn't playing the game the way  you think they should.  The game is designed for all types of flying styles, even timid ones. Nobody put you in charge of how people should fly.

Your attitude makes this quite clear to me(I'm an expert in this): you need some cream for your diaper rash and a nap.  Go get your mommy and have her put you in your crib, then maybe we can talk after your nap.   

Beyond story labeled "The set up" lets review the question I asked

Pickers and runners, please help me understand what is the fascination with this style of game play.  Maybe it's a "your $15" thing, but what possible enjoyment can someone get from only engaging cons when they are already engaged and running from a 1v1 when you have an E advantage?  To me, 90% of the fun is the fight, not the winner.  I am so confused..

Didn't say I was in charge of anything and don't see any crying there.  I am not arguing the fact that this game is anything you want it to be.   I want to know what motivates timid players to play as I described in the "set up".  That's all. I am sorry you are having such a hard time understanding what was asked.  It was a simple question, I am not complaining at all, I am just on a fact finding mission for which I thank all who have added to the thread, including you.  Your perspective has helped me understand the mind of a timid player.

Steve, perhaps you should... actually, never mind, with so little to stop it's passage, it would have gone in one of your ears and out the other.  I will reserve my thoughts on your cranial deficiencies.

.squelch Steve

[moot]

Spin it anyway you want ... the guy was a grapefruit.

Quoted for truth..

You don't actually care.

What you really want is for him to stop, so you can kill him instead of him killing you.

No... Some players do almost nothing but fly that timid way, and it boggles the mind of other players.  Hence the puzzlement to the point of starting a thread asking for others' help in making sense of it.

I for one would like to know what motivates these timid players.  Could one of you timid players please explain why you play a PvP centric game and refuse to fight?

Anaxagoras is the guy you want to ask this to.

[moot]

n/t

[SlapShot]

If you've put him in a position where you've negated his energy advantage to the point you've forced him to disengage you've scored a victory of sorts. Part of the frustration for the slow turner is that, often, that moral victory of stalemating a faster opponent is not consummated by a kill. Forcing a poor turner to the point where his only viable decisions are to disengage or fight a turner's fight is a victory. The whole premise of flying a poor turner, what I coin an initiative fighter, is to always have as many options as possible. As a TnB'er your goal is to reduce those options as much as possible, hopefully to the point where he can't disengage andh as no choice but to turn with you. You can't realistically expect a poorer turner to continue to fight on your terms, where you have all the advantages,  if he has an option to do otherwise

Your absolutely correct ... but that was not the point of the thread.

The K4 made no attempt to fight when presented with the 1 v 1 ... had he engaged and then disengaged, if put into a non-winning position, to reset the fight ... then I don't think Scca would have created this thread ... whether he lost or won.

It was the fact that the K4 made a couple (or one) pass, probably hoping to get lucky ... extended beyond icon range and only returned, and enter the fight with any fervor, because Scca was already engaged.

Personally ... I do and don't understand this mentality.

[Steve]

  I am not arguing the fact that this game is anything you want it to be.   

Why play an on-line multi-player sim, when all you do is run away when confronted with the very thing that the simulation was designed for, online air combat?  My desire is to understand the mental defect that thinks this style of play is fun.

You should keep track of whay you type. You've already posted that a person who doesn't fly a way you approve of  had a mental defect. TRy to keep you blabbering straight.  Maybe after your nap, you'll be thinking more clearly.  

.squelch Steve

Translation: I can't have a discussion with differing viewpoints than mine without insulting the other person. When it turns out that the other person is more clever than I, I run home with my tail between my legs instead of calming down and being rational.  Surrender.

[Steve]

It was the fact that the K4 made a couple (or one) pass, probably hoping to get lucky ... extended beyond icon range and only returned,

His first post doesn't make any mention of extending out of icon range.

[Scca]

Your absolutely correct ... but that was not the point of the thread.

The K4 made no attempt to fight when presented with the 1 v 1 ... had he engaged and then disengaged, if put into a non-winning position, to reset the fight ... then I don't think Scca would have created this thread ... whether he lost or won.

It was the fact that the K4 made a couple (or one) pass, probably hoping to get lucky ... extended beyond icon range and only returned, and enter the fight with any fervor, because Scca was already engaged.

Personally ... I do and don't understand this mentality.

Well said.  I think SlapShot gets it.  Not only the question, but shares the confusion I have. 

p.s. The quote from Guppy in your sig is very relevant to this discussion.

[Steve]

I would be happy to do that.  You and I have tangled before. I would likely loose, but it will be fun. 

By the way, if you are again going to take shots at a person's intellect, you should learn the difference between "loose" and "lose". I accept your surrender.  

[Zazen13]

The K4 made no attempt to fight when presented with the 1 v 1 ... had he engaged and then disengaged, if put into a non-winning position, to reset the fight ... then I don't think Scca would have created this thread ... whether he lost or won.

I am not going to try to make excuses for the mystery 109 pilot as we have only Scca's subjective version of events to go on. But, I will say that if it played out as he says the 109 pilot is a prime example of someone not flying aggressively enough to make him effective/dangerous. It sounds to me like he spent 15-20 minutes to eventually get 1 kill. He succeeded in leaving himself choices, but failed to effectively use those decisions to maintain then reattain the initiative and exploit it in a timely manner. The arena is full of these relatively harmless types, you can tell who they are because they only get 2-3 kills/Hr. There is always a delicate balance in flying a poor turner of being aggressive enough to kill efficiently and so loose you quickly run out of options and get killed. It takes a lot of experience to learn to ride that razor's edge to maximum effectiveness. It sounds to me like the 109 driver was inexperienced and/or insecure with his ability/plane.

[moot]

Steve, I doubt you'd "approve" of me if I picked you off every single time you'd just started a really good 1:1. Nevermind if I bragged about it after the fact.... "Haha Steve, you got PWND!".

[DaveJ]

Steve,

I can't quite fathom why you are taking the picker and runner side.

[moot]

He isn't.  But he is painting SCCA as some guy whose SA failed him.. And that's not SCCA's point.   SCCA's point is that the K4 earned a SHALLOW victory.  A victory that's no more worth bragging about than a vulch.  A kill that SCCA's trying to make sense of given that the game allows us to die over and over, effectively removing "death" from the equation and hence making the game absolutely about what we can do regardless of "death".  The game allows us to bet everything on what we know we are capable of doing, regardless of the risk of dying before we can do it.  The game is meant to bring out the best out of us, not the worst.    SCCA's query is about making sense of players who can't recognize that opportunity.

[Steve]

Steve, I doubt you'd "approve" of me if I picked you off every single time you'd just started a really good 1:1. Nevermind if I bragged about it after the fact.... "Haha Steve, you got PWND!".

Heheh, that didn't happen to Scca, but you are right.
I'm not condoning what the k4 allegedly did. I think smack talk on 200 is perfectly appropriate but started a pointless thread on the bbs merely seems like whining to me. That's been my point all along.

Back to the k4... who knows what he was thinking? Maybe he's a spit hater and didn't want to give the spit a chance.  Maybe Scca picked him in he previous fight and he's looking for some similar payback.  Maybe Scca vulched him 6 times straight the day before.  I'm not approving of the k4's actions.... it just seems like a whiner thread to me. The OP couldn't track the second con and got picked, he didn't like it.

We all get picked now and then, even rant about it on 200 from time to time.  Can you imagine how many pointless threads we'd have on the bbs if someone came her to whine every time they got picked?