Its not a HO after the inital merge..

[angelsandair]

+1!

So many just can't get off the wep, chop throttle and hit flaps if they have 'em. They just race around the outside and complain when you nail em as they cross your path the second time.

I usually just send them a GK on 200 if it actually was.

[Hornet33]

I won't fire on the initial merge. After that though, if your plane is in my gunsight, I don't care what aspect angle I'm looking at, I'm hitting the trigger. At that point the fight is on and anything goes. If I kill you it's not because of a HO it's because I got guns on faster than you did.

[Widewing]

If you're face to face after the initial merge you both did something wrong and you should not take the shot.

Why not?


My regards,

Widewing

[CAP1]

Ok so let me get this
no shot on the first merge
no shot on the first immelman
no shot to clear your team mates six (pick)
only dweebs fly this
only Dweebs fly that
This flying lark is ....hmmmm

I'm just going to up GV's I think ...one rule ...I see you I shoot you

but you're a dweeb if ya take a wirble or a tiger

[humble]

The simple truth is that 95%+ of the time the the guy who's dieing is thinking this...




but is actually getting this...




Now in the 1st picture it isnt actually a HO either since I dont have guns on the con (nor do I want to)....but it certainly fits the general conception of a "bad" face shot. What the 2nd picture shows is a properly managed remerge, at no time does the con have any offensive posture or opportunity of any kind. He simply failed to recognize that he had in fact lost the merge and pushed a bad position someohw expecting that I'm supposed to give him a "redo" because he got a look at me thru the top of his cockpit (well before I turned him into red mist at least)...

[Vudak]

Why not?


My regards,

Widewing

Well, for a practical reason, because if you fail to blow him up, you're colliding.

[SkyRock]

 
if you cross paths, get into it twisting and turning, and end up coming face to face.. and get yours shot off..

just keep your mouth shut..

that is all.


 

If your "fighting" someone and all you get is a face shot, you suck and should be called a HO twit!!

[dunnrite]

These threads remind me of a fight I got into in High School (many years ago).  "No kicking I called it".  Unless I have con(s) on my six, I will not fire on a ho shot.  If I see any tracers coming from my opponent on the ho, he can expect to see my 50s raining upon him.

[toonces3]

The simple truth is that 95%+ of the time the the guy who's dieing is thinking this...

(Image removed from quote.)


but is actually getting this...


(Image removed from quote.)

Now in the 1st picture it isnt actually a HO either since I dont have guns on the con (nor do I want to)....but it certainly fits the general conception of a "bad" face shot. What the 2nd picture shows is a properly managed remerge, at no time does the con have any offensive posture or opportunity of any kind. He simply failed to recognize that he had in fact lost the merge and pushed a bad position someohw expecting that I'm supposed to give him a "redo" because he got a look at me thru the top of his cockpit (well before I turned him into red mist at least)...

I'm guilty of calling that a HO.

For me, it happens, usually, when I'm deeply into a fight, thumb dancing all over the hat switch.  I'll be pulling hard to get my nose around, looking forward up, see the tracers and feel like I'm getting shot in the face when actually I'm getting shot in the canopy.  I forget that I'm not looking straight through my own prop because I'm so into the fight.

I think I've come to terms with the HO.  I try not to get upset when it happens to me.   Whether I take the HO shot pre or especially post-merge just depends on how much fun I'm having.  The best times I've ever had are fights that went several merges without either of us taking a HO shot, but rather, fighting for something behind the 3-9 line.  I understand that you can't always expect that in the MA, but when it happens it's pretty sweet. 

I still remember a fight with drfritz that I had like this.

[Wingnutt]

If your "fighting" someone and all you get is a face shot, you suck and should be called a HO twit!!

so forcing the overshoot with scissors and shooting someone on the cross when you cut inside them is dweebery..

roger, gotcha..



Idiot.

[Widewing]

Well, for a practical reason, because if you fail to blow him up, you're colliding.

Very rarely. Almost never in my case. The reason is that there is always some divergent angle present. Kick rudder, squeeze the trigger and rake them as they go by...


My regards,

Widewing

[Sloehand]

                        ^
                        ^
                        ^
                        ^
Yea,  what he said.

     

[humble]

Very rarely. Almost never in my case. The reason is that there is always some divergent angle present. Kick rudder, squeeze the trigger and rake them as they go by...


My regards,

Widewing

I think this is the most overlooked aspect of this "debate". It's almost never actually a true "head on". If we look at the lower picture I posted of the canopy shot the other guy never at any time had any hope of a shot period. At WW's level it would be pretty rare that he's going to force a bad situation or give up E or angles to chase a poor shot.

If you look at the ponys cockpit you can clearly see two things, I have 2 or more notches of flaps deployed and am on the gas (manifold is 35 or higher). So to achieve this shot window I had to be off the gas early enough to get on the flaps and slow enough that even with the gas back "on" the flaps hadnt retracted yet. So this shot window was achieved much earlier in the fight and is a "worked for" guns solution. If we look further you can see that my lift vector is transitioning from lead to lag and is very close to pure vertical while his lift vector is already carrying him to a nose down position. The position is consistant with good flying and even if the shot window is missed I've actually "won" the remerge and am in position to control the fights next few moves. Had the other guy been able to get around a bit quicker I would have easily been able to convert to lag and use the vertical to avoid any shot window.

The simple truth is that you have an obligation to defend against a reasonable front quarter shot, you dont get a "free pass"....

[Vudak]

Very rarely. Almost never in my case. The reason is that there is always some divergent angle present. Kick rudder, squeeze the trigger and rake them as they go by...


My regards,

Widewing

I understand what you're saying, especially in a MA context.  But do remember that you're the guy who posts the flight information about tightest possible turning radius, aircraft performance, etc. how many people can really match yours?  Certainly some, but they'd be rare. 

For others, especially in the DA (making the following point fairly moot), it's not as rare.  If both guys are experienced enough, they'll recognize that if they both continue on a certain flight path, they'll risk collission, and will try to avoid it. 

If only one guy tries to avoid that, and the other guy presses and shoots, well, I suppose we've all done it...  But I also suppose we didn't feel all that great about it afterward.

FWIW, I don't blame Humble for taking the shot in the second picture - that's fair game and one I'd take any day.  Of course I'd probably never hear the end of it, but them's the chips

[humble]

hehe...

We both know you wouldnt give me that shot:)

If we're "remerging" and one of us sees we're late you begin to deny the shot and go offensive...its part of the natural evolution to a rolling scissors type fight.