Author Topic: Religion vital to the human race?  (Read 1398 times)

Offline SD67

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Re: Religion vital to the human race?
« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2008, 08:16:20 AM »
Perhaps they just didn't have room for the last line...
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Offline SkyRock

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Re: Religion vital to the human race?
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2008, 08:19:34 AM »
 :rofl

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Offline SirLoin

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Re: Religion vital to the human race?
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2008, 08:24:45 AM »
Both you theists and atheists are going round and round the fishbowl with no certain answer in sight.  You're spending time here on earth on some astronomical bet that you can't even figure out the odds for.  It's a waste of time. 

It's not a waste of time and with the Hubble telescope,important discoveries are being made all the time...The Mars probe lands and after the bosters shut off,the dust settles..Low and behold it lands on a patch of ice(frozen water).

And when microscopic life is found on Mars(and they will find this),it will redraw the map on "how we got here"..But the religious will say like they did with dinosaur fossils..That God put the micro-organisms in the ice on Mars "to test our faith"

Anyhow,it sure beats scouring the earth for Noah's Ark or Mose's burning bush.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 08:27:35 AM by SirLoin »
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Offline lasersailor184

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Re: Religion vital to the human race?
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2008, 08:50:58 AM »
It's not a waste of time and with the Hubble telescope,important discoveries are being made all the time...The Mars probe lands and after the bosters shut off,the dust settles..Low and behold it lands on a patch of ice(frozen water).

And when microscopic life is found on Mars(and they will find this),it will redraw the map on "how we got here"..But the religious will say like they did with dinosaur fossils..That God put the micro-organisms in the ice on Mars "to test our faith"

Anyhow,it sure beats scouring the earth for Noah's Ark or Mose's burning bush.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but didn't they find Noah's Ark?  In turkey or something?
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Offline Saxman

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Re: Religion vital to the human race?
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2008, 08:53:44 AM »
In a conveniently inaccessible glacier-encased spot that they have the word of maybe 2-3 people to go on, IIRC.
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Offline BnZ

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Re: Religion vital to the human race?
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2008, 11:12:20 AM »

And when microscopic life is found on Mars(and they will find this),it will redraw the map on "how we got here"..But the religious will say like they did with dinosaur fossils..That God put the micro-organisms in the ice on Mars "to test our faith"


Funny, I've never heard or read any religious writer who said that God created fossils as a trick to test the belief of the faithful. And I've read or heard a great deal of what they have to say. I read a sci-fi story vaguely along those lines once, but that was it.

Don't put words in people's mouths to make them look stupid, concocting a paper tiger like this to tear down, that is fairly lame. If you want to say "Christians who reject the theory of evolution are wrong, and heres why..." then say that in a civilized manner and I will agree with you 100%

BTW, I have never found the part of the Bible that says there cannot be life on Mars or other planets, etc. Even intelligent life, Fermi paradox aside. Thus, I do not know how such a belief came to be a Christian doctrine, if it is such.

Offline Saxman

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Re: Religion vital to the human race?
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2008, 11:44:10 AM »
Well there's the whole part about God creating man in his image. Human ego alone would all but ensure that the concept of intelligent life on other planets would be seen as threatening by religious conservatives.
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Offline SirLoin

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Re: Religion vital to the human race?
« Reply #52 on: July 14, 2008, 12:56:27 PM »
Funny, I've never heard or read any religious writer who said that God created fossils as a trick to test the belief of the faithful. And I've read or heard a great deal of what they have to say. I read a sci-fi story vaguely along those lines once, but that was it.

Don't put words in people's mouths to make them look stupid, concocting a paper tiger like this to tear down, that is fairly lame. If you want to say "Christians who reject the theory of evolution are wrong, and heres why..." then say that in a civilized manner and I will agree with you 100%

BTW, I have never found the part of the Bible that says there cannot be life on Mars or other planets, etc. Even intelligent life, Fermi paradox aside. Thus, I do not know how such a belief came to be a Christian doctrine, if it is such.

Why don't you visit the creationism museum in Ohio...Where you can see anamatronic children playing with anamatronic (and saddled) dinosours..Ask someone who works there how the fossils got in the rocks...Don't let him put words in your mouth though.

And the Bible doesn't mention Mars or other planets because the men who wrote the book "didn't know they existed"..Much like why marcupials are never mentioned in the good book.

Christians who don't believe in evolution are wrong,as i have explained in many threads if you care to search.
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Offline BnZ

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Re: Religion vital to the human race?
« Reply #53 on: July 14, 2008, 02:10:57 PM »
Why don't you visit the creationism museum in Ohio...Where you can see anamatronic children playing with anamatronic (and saddled) dinosours..Ask someone who works there how the fossils got in the rocks...Don't let him put words in your mouth though.

I know what Creationists believe. They will say that those dinosaur bones were buried in the great flood. Granted, they are wrong, but you implied they believe God put those bones in the ground so good Christians would dig them up, weigh the evidence, and then reject the existence of dinosaurs out of hand because they aren't mentioned in the Bible or some such. This would be several magnitudes more wrong, and frankly would make for a pretty messed-up God.



Offline indy007

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Re: Religion vital to the human race?
« Reply #54 on: July 14, 2008, 02:35:55 PM »
I know what Creationists believe. They will say that those dinosaur bones were buried in the great flood. Granted, they are wrong, but you implied they believe God put those bones in the ground so good Christians would dig them up, weigh the evidence, and then reject the existence of dinosaurs out of hand because they aren't mentioned in the Bible or some such. This would be several magnitudes more wrong, and frankly would make for a pretty messed-up God.

You must have gotten lucky and not went to Catholic school.

Offline moot

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Re: Religion vital to the human race?
« Reply #55 on: July 14, 2008, 05:26:46 PM »
It's not a waste of time and with the Hubble telescope,important discoveries are being made all the time...The Mars probe lands and after the bosters shut off,the dust settles..Low and behold it lands on a patch of ice(frozen water).

And when microscopic life is found on Mars(and they will find this),it will redraw the map on "how we got here"..But the religious will say like they did with dinosaur fossils..That God put the micro-organisms in the ice on Mars "to test our faith"

Anyhow,it sure beats scouring the earth for Noah's Ark or Mose's burning bush.
I'm talking about atheists and theists arguing on and on with each other about whether there is or isn't something they can't detect for sure.  In the mean time, the sand glass of their life here on earth keeps flowing regardless of their grasping at thin air.  Whatever happens will happen, and if you can't figure what it will be, it's all in vain :)  It seems entirely more sensible to me to take care of the here and now.
Re: Mars etc: They already were fairly certain that that patch of ground was ice.  It was visible in the radar from orbit.  There's no "lo and behold" in that "discovery"... The Hubble telescope has made only empirical discoveries, nothing for or against anything supernatural.  You don't have evidence that the Mars lander (or the next, or the sample return in the cards for ~2020) will find life.  If you're certain of it, it's a leap of faith.

I do agree that if life (a pretty badly defined notion) was found, literal interpreters of holy scripture would need to revise their perspective, just as flat earthers did before them, etc etc.  That's nothing new though, and doesn't say anything about science or religion, so much as about the people dogmaticaly reducing their perspective to some shallow understanding of either or both.
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Offline lasersailor184

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Re: Religion vital to the human race?
« Reply #56 on: July 14, 2008, 05:41:47 PM »
Why don't you visit the creationism museum in Ohio...Where you can see anamatronic children playing with anamatronic (and saddled) dinosours..Ask someone who works there how the fossils got in the rocks...Don't let him put words in your mouth though.

And the Bible doesn't mention Mars or other planets because the men who wrote the book "didn't know they existed"..Much like why marcupials are never mentioned in the good book.

Christians who don't believe in evolution are wrong,as i have explained in many threads if you care to search.

Again, unless I'm mistaken, they had identified several planets back then.  Or at least they could tell that they weren't just stars.  For example, Mars.  Mars was identified as Lucifer, the light bringer, the fallen angel, best known as the Devil.
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Offline SirLoin

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Re: Religion vital to the human race?
« Reply #57 on: July 14, 2008, 08:49:06 PM »
Again, unless I'm mistaken, they had identified several planets back then.  Or at least they could tell that they weren't just stars.  For example, Mars.  Mars was identified as Lucifer, the light bringer, the fallen angel, best known as the Devil.

Nowhere in the Bible are stars or planets stated as such...If the good book stated them as planets,suns and solar systems,that would be evidence that the Bible is the literal word of a God...Instead,the Bible gets it all wrong and is evidence itself that religion is man-made.

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« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 08:50:46 PM by SirLoin »
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Offline 33Vortex

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Re: Religion vital to the human race?
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2008, 09:01:19 PM »
Since Sir Loin asked, here is my take on the matter:

I believe my knowledge of the fact that I am going to die and be no more, that everything I have ever loved or will love will die and be no more, that every great and wise man who has ever lived will die and be no more, that there is likely no divine help or greater purpose to existence, is slowly driving me a little insane.

I believe that if most of the populace knew this and had the I.Q. to think about it long and hard, they might also be facing a slippery slope into madness. I believe that many psychological problems of the inhabitants of Western civilization may be caused by a void in spiritual belief, brought on by the increasingly untenable nature of religion in the face of attack by zealous atheists.

Just in case anyone hasn't thought about it hard enough, death. Wormfood. Corruption of the flesh, ravens and vultures eating the tender parts of you and your lover and your puppy Skip. Or, in today's world, your blood drained and your body pickled to mortify in a sealed box 6 feet under the ground in a way that is quite possibly more disturbing than the natural process.

I believe that religious belief, for all the many, many bad things it has caused, also may have offered some sort of buffer against these realizations to the most of the population most of the time. Thus they have gotten up and worked, and eaten, and fornicated and had children, instead of slipping into depression and just laying down and dying from the weight of horrible realizations.

Of course, the trick is having a religion people believe in without having an unworkable amount of extreme oddities in your religion that make life HERE worse. Skipping meat on Friday is acceptable, "killing the unbeliever wherever you find him" is problematic.

My heart-felt prayer, offered everyday to whatever powers may be, is not for any of the things I or any other man might desire, but simply, to be proven wrong on my skepticism of the supernatural!


Religion is intimately connected with social and monetary control (ruthless power), nothing more, nothing less. That's my viewpoint. I have a scientific approach and it does not bother me one bit that I will one day rot away and return to dust that will spin around this sun until time as we know it ends. We are all part of this celestial body we call Earth, does it really bother you that much that worms (or anything else for that matter) will eat you? I'd be bothered if I'd be alive but since I'd be dead, no. :)

The one and only type of God or higher being I'd be willing to accept, not as god but as fellow species, would be life from other planets. Let's face it, we have few real answers of the universe. In fact we have more questions than answers, and every new answer raises more questions. So it's anyone's guess really. I'm not ruling out the existence of aliens. Would they visit earth, they could very well be percieved as God(s). I'm not even ruling out the existence of God. It's just that what you "believers" take for evidence, I find is nonsense.

Are you seriously that bothered with life, that you question it? Ever had a gun fired at you? Or a knife stuck in between your shoulder blades? I assume not for life would be a most welcome experience to you if you had lived through such an event. I'm sure, for I have. You would spend less time worrying about it, and enjoy each and every day of your life more than you previously could have imagined. Take nothing for granted, and you will not mourn it's loss, not even your own life. This is what will free your mind and soul. Not money, power, love, or property.

My point is, religion is absolutely not vital. It's our environment that is decieving (especially other human beings), taking advantage of us in our craving for safety and comfort. A craving which is desirable to all who seek to control us, but utterly unnecessary and false. We as human beings part of this world we live in have nothing to fear, nothing, but ourselves and our own stupidity.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 09:39:41 PM by 33Vortex »

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Offline Baitman

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Re: Religion vital to the human race?
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2008, 09:03:09 PM »
That is because the Good Book (bible) is a description of the sun ,planets and constellations.

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