Religion vital to the human race?

[BnZ]

Since Sir Loin asked, here is my take on the matter:

I believe my knowledge of the fact that I am going to die and be no more, that everything I have ever loved or will love will die and be no more, that every great and wise man who has ever lived will die and be no more, that there is likely no divine help or greater purpose to existence, is slowly driving me a little insane.

I believe that if most of the populace knew this and had the I.Q. to think about it long and hard, they might also be facing a slippery slope into madness. I believe that many psychological problems of the inhabitants of Western civilization may be caused by a void in spiritual belief, brought on by the increasingly untenable nature of religion in the face of attack by zealous atheists.

Just in case anyone hasn't thought about it hard enough, death. Wormfood. Corruption of the flesh, ravens and vultures eating the tender parts of you and your lover and your puppy Skip. Or, in today's world, your blood drained and your body pickled to mortify in a sealed box 6 feet under the ground in a way that is quite possibly more disturbing than the natural process.

I believe that religious belief, for all the many, many bad things it has caused, also may have offered some sort of buffer against these realizations to the most of the population most of the time. Thus they have gotten up and worked, and eaten, and fornicated and had children, instead of slipping into depression and just laying down and dying from the weight of horrible realizations.

Of course, the trick is having a religion people believe in without having an unworkable amount of extreme oddities in your religion that make life HERE worse. Skipping meat on Friday is acceptable, "killing the unbeliever wherever you find him" is problematic.

My heart-felt prayer, offered everyday to whatever powers may be, is not for any of the things I or any other man might desire, but simply, to be proven wrong on my skepticism of the supernatural!

[moot]

Storm in a teapot.. No offense.

[AKIron]

Since you have no experience with death BnZ how exactly do you come by this "knowledge of the fact"?

[moot]

Sounds like bad case of cognitive dissonance..

[Masherbrum]

Since you have no experience with death BnZ how exactly do you come by this "knowledge of the fact"?

Thank you for silencing him.   

[RedTop]

Im wondering why .....people think about this for such a long time. I can't say the thought of dying never passed my mind...I'm sure it has for most everyone.

What I am saying is...that regardless of whether you believe in God...or whatever....what purpose does it do to sit around and think of dying and wondering. You either believe in an afterlife or not. people either believe in God or they don't.

Seems like a waster of time to linger on something that is absolutley unprovable and worry about it.

Life is to short to worry about it. Live it in the way you believe will attain what it is your seeking.

[BnZ]

Since you have no experience with death BnZ how exactly do you come by this "knowledge of the fact"?

Well, that is true enough AK, there is no proof we will NOT encounter an afterlife.

Read carefully AK. I'm not a militant atheist; I am a reluctant one. I hope you are right (to a degree) and I am wrong.

[AKIron]

Well, that is true enough AK, there is no proof we will NOT encounter an afterlife.

Read carefully AK. I'm not a militant atheist; I am a reluctant one. I hope you are right (to a degree) and I am wrong.

Hope, faith, belief, those are all any of us still living have. Only fact is that you and everyone else will die, what happens to you after that cannot be known this side of the grave. This is obvious to most of us I think. Just wanted to know if you had some inside information the rest of us are not privy to. 

[Saxman]

My biggest problem with religion is the artificial notion that some believers and so-called "men of god" attempt to force on others that there's only "one" right answer. I'm looking at YOU especially, Islam and Christianity. A great deal of cultural and spiritual richness was lost and demonized by the "My way or the highway" approach taken by the Church and the radical Islamic elements, in a way that is relatively unusual in the history of human spirituality.

Compare this to the pre-Christian Romans, who saw similarities and thus adopted and integrated the Greek and other regional beliefs into their own mythology--in fact, calling Greek mythology "Greek Mythology" is ITSELF misleading, as the exact same figures in name as much as attributes existed throughout much of Europe and Asia Minor. The Romans later recognized Germanic paganism as in some ways akin to their own beliefs, rather than something alien and needing to be exterminated. Odin was recognized as sharing many aspects of Mercury by the Romans, while the Germanic tribes saw the Romans as part of Thor's cult. It wasn't until the expansion of Christianity that the Germanic/Proto-Norse Gods began to lose their positive aspects and became something wholly evil and associated with the devil. Yes, Odin was God of War and Death and could be capricious, but this was the same god who sacrificed his eye to bring the gift of poetry and inspiration, and could be as generous if amicable as he could be dangerous if irritated.

It wasn't so much the Christian FAITH in of itself that the Romans attacked, it was their fear that the Christian belief in the divinity of Christ was TREASON, due to the close association with the Caesars and the Divine (Jupiter particularly). The Hebrews were more tolerated because in large part they "played ball," and the Hebrew faith lacked this sort of direct competitor to the Emperors. The Second Temple was built by Herod largely using the wealth and power that came with cooperating with Rome. It was only destroyed because the Judeans decided they didn't want to be ruled by Rome and took up arms in an effort to throw them out, not out of active persecution of their faith.

[BnZ]

Interesting historical perspective. I was thinking the "Sax" in your handle was probably a musical instrument...I take it refers more to the old Anglo-Saxon utility knife?

Although I'd say a body count is still a body count, no matter the dogma one is protecting. The Romans would perhaps have no problem with me saying "My god is named Grumog, and he lives in the lake"...but they were less kind to that brave Gallic chieftan who claimed "I am a free man in a free state." So why single out religion as the evil instead looking at the larger problem of the State running amok, over and over again through human history?

[SD67]

Have you ever wondered how most of the world ended up with monotheistic religions?
The Pagans, Greeks and Romans all had wonderfully rich and in their own way productive lives with their bevy of mostly fun and interesting gods, then someone comes up with the idea to replace these gods with one seriously vindictive old fart. Now who's going to buy that unless it's forced upon you?
Why would anyone want to do such a thing? Well It's a whole lot easier to control a population that has one focused point of faith than trying to direct one whos' actions vary from one god to the next.
How was this achieved? Well that's simple really, you kill everyone who is unwilling to do as you say. The Muslims still follow this doctrine.

[Masherbrum]

Feed it.   Feed it.   Feed that kitty.

[Saxman]

BnZ,

No, it's the instrument, though I HAVE recently been interested in Anglo-Saxon culture.

SD67,

Partly, I think, is because it tugs at the instinctive human fear of the unknown. From what I've read recently the Germanic tribes, Norse and their ancestors left a degree of ambiguity about death (though I've recently read there's evidence that the modern image of Heaven and Hell at least in part derived from this mythology, with the Germanic/Norse Hel serving both as Purgatory AND the place of final punishment, and some sketchy evidence of a "Heofon" paradise, at least among the pre-Christian English). Not least of which because there were so many possible destinations after death. Half the warriors slain in battle went to Odin, the others to Freyja. Rán claimed the drowned. Certain other manners of death (disease, and I THINK murder) went to Hel instead.

Also, early Christianity (Europe particular) offered an "easy out" for those who, according to Pagan beliefs, were due for some seriously bad torment in the afterlife. Granted it's a little more complicated than this, but generally from the Migration Period even up to the modern era, all one had to do was accept Christ as savior, repent of your sins, and badda-bing-badda-boom, you're on your way to paradise. Even if the wicked WERE to be punished regardless, (as I think is the case. Why would God reward a lifetime of evil actions, just because you accept Christ and say "I'm sorry! Really!" at the end?) it's still a nice feeling to think a pleasant fate for eternity is secured with a few nice words, when the Pagan beliefs didn't offer you that last chance out and salvation had to be earned in DEEDS over your whole lifetime.

[rpm]

I have no problem with religion. It's the "prophets" I can't stand.

[SD67]

I hear that's why Pre Christian Rome failed, they went broke from the circuses...





















The Lions kept eating the prophets